How to find a good American Bulldog breeder...what are some red flags

[IluvAmericanBulldogs]

How to find a good American Bulldog breeder...what are some red flags (in other words when to run)

Also what are some things to consider when purchasing an american bulldog puppy

We are planning on getting a female by the way and we have just recently started our research on the breed, but its the one breed we can both agree on. We are still a few years away from getting one

I am looking to find a good American Bulldog breeder. I'm looking for one similar in size and build to Chance from Homeward bound. (I know there are a few different lines but I'm not sure of the differences) (By the way Chance is not our reason for getting an American Bulldog, he is just what I think of when I think American Bulldog)

Anyways we have a daughter she will be 7 when we get this dog and we have 2 smaller dogs a Minature Poodle and a Jack Russell Terrier mix who will both be 9 years old at the time.

So what are things to consider when purchasing an American Bulldog puppy and how to find a reputable responsible breeder.

Thanks


I was planning on adopting from the shelter but I was advised that with a young child in the home going with a reputable breeder was the best option. (especially since I won't adopt a dog over 6 months old)

[IluvAmericanBulldogs]

Any advice would be much appreciated

[3 PITS and a PEI]

Can't offer much in the way of
AB breeders but there are very knowledgeable people on this board and it may take a day or two for some of them to drop in.

All my APBT are pound puppies so I got good and I got bad.

I commend you for seeking the right information before you fall in love...........very smart!

[attitude]

first off, how much reseach have you done on the breed? buying a dog "like the one in the movie" probably isnt going to be what happens, cuz "movie dogs " have been trained and dont necessarily act like the breed is suppose to.
that being said good ab breeders will be able to show you health tests...hips, elbows and NCL minimum.
good breeders will also do some kind of temperament testing of all breed stock, they should work their breed stock (it is a working breed) as well as show it to prove proper conformation.


Recognizing an unethical breeder


When you talk to people about their puppies, there are a few warning signs that you may be dealing with a disreputable, unethical, or irresponsible breeder:
The "breeder" lacks knowledge about the breed
The "breeder" shows ignorance or denial of genetic defects in the breed
The "breeder" has no involvement in dog sports or shows
The "breeder" doesn't let you observe the puppies or adults, or let you see the kennels
The "breeder" has no documentation and cannot provide a pedigree
The puppies are not socialized
Here are a few more things that you ought to look out for.

"Champion lines" -- look instead for Champion sired or Champion parents. All Champion Lines means is that there is a dog somewhere in your puppy's family that was a champion - it says nothing about the quality of the parents at all. Anyone can buy a puppy from a champion, but it does not mean that they have any other interest in the breed but to bank on the name and make money. The puppy may have been sold as a pet (since it had some problems that prevented it from being shown) and an unethical person did not have the dog fixed and is still breeding puppies.

"CKC Registration" or "CKC Papers" -- So what? CKC registration does not guarantee quality. CKC papers are much like the title of a car - papers are issued on the junked chevy on blocks in your yard just as easily as they are on a brand new, shiny Jaguar. CKC does not control breeding, approve litters, or guarantee soundness. Unfortunately, in the hands of some unethical breeders, it doesn't even guarantee that the dog is purebred. Also be advised, neither the Canadian Kennel Club or the American Kennel Club recognize the American Bulldog so if a breeder tells you they are selling a pup as such , run! If you buy from a reputable breeder - they will provide all necessary paperwork when you buy a puppy. It is not a selling point, and shouldn't be treated as one.

Be wary of other "registrations", as well. There are several groups that are registering dogs, occasionally even mixed breeds, for a fee. This registration means nothing, and is of no value to you. .
Extra-big", "extra-small" -- breeders trying for extremes are rarely raising healthy dogs, and any ad that has to stress the size and weight of the dog to sell the puppies is suspect, in my opinion. Usually, these dogs are outside of the breed standard and are subject to their own medical problems due to excessive size or lack of it.

"Rare" -- Why? Is the dog showable? Are there too many defects for the animal to be bred? What kind of problems does this "rare" color or size or pattern entail? There are many people buying "rare" white Boxers or "rare" exotic colours/ size/ eyes, not realizing that they are not show-prospects, and that they are buying a dog with medical problems from lack of pigmentation, and possible behavioral problems as well.

There are even some people selling unusual cross breeds as "rare" dogs, and people buy them thinking they are getting some unique treasure. I don't want to be too harsh about this, though -- every breed we se today is the result of some specialized and "rare" breeding to create a certain look or behavior. Shepherds herd, retrievers retrieve...because we have selectively bred them to do so. A breeder who is trying to 'recreate' a lost breed may fall on either side of the ethical divide. Shop with care.

"see both parents" As noted in questions to ask a breeder , this is not usually a good thing. Rarely will a good breeder have the luck to own both dogs for the perfect litter. If you can see both parents, it often means that the person had two dogs in the back yard and didn't supervise them carefully enough, resulting in puppies. But being able to "see both parents" doesn't always mean that they are both on the breeders property. Having the option to visit and interact with both parents will give you a better idea of what to expect from your pup."Must go now!" Why? Are they too big to be cute anymore? Need more money? Is there a problem? Be very wary of this one.

There really is no secret to buying a good purebred dog. It all depends on the knowledge of the buyer and the willingness of the buyer to utilize that knowledge when confronted with a bunch of cute fuzzy balls of fur. An informed buyer is less likely to be taken in. If only there was a Consumer Reports on dog breeders.

Deciding which breed is right for you
The first step in the process is deciding which breed is right for the family.

The Internet offers several venues for testing your personality and matching it with certain breeds. A family with small children? Perhaps a smaller breed would be a better choice with an emphasis on temperament? An active lifestyle? Maybe one of the sporting breeds would be best. Large and giant breeds (over 60 pounds) are nice but remember they cost more to feed and should the dog get sick, require more medicine because of their size. Reading all you can about breeds of purebred dogs and familiarizing yourself with traits and characteristics is a must.

Once a breed has been chosen, the search for a breeder is next on the list.

Pet shops are certainly an easy way to buy puppies but these puppies are more likely to have been mass produced and little attention has been paid to health. Also, these puppies are sold with hefty price tags. Guarantees are sketchy at best and a return policy is usually for thirty days. After that, you are on your own.

The next option is the backyard breeder. These people have two dogs, one of either sex and decide that Rover should have some fun with Roverette. After all, the children need to see the miracle of birth and Roverette has to have a litter before she is spayed. Surely a litter of puppies is money in the bank. This sounds like a good idea to the breeder but to the buyer, it may be a disaster waiting to happen. These are the puppies where no health testing or pedigree research has been done on the parents. They might be registered and this fact is supposed to be a selling point.

Next is the sophisticated backyard breeder. He may dabble in showing in conformation and/or obedience but maybe has not accomplished much. He may have some knowledge but more than likely, hasn’t had enough experience or contact with people in the breed to be of any real help. His main selling point may be that there are X number of champions in the pedigree and these puppies may be show quality. That seems to be the catchall phrase and meant to impress the buyer. In fact, many things are done to impress a buyer and marketing is important. Again health testing is probably not done on the parents of the litter. If there is any health testing, it is minimal.

Finally we have the people who are truly dedicated to their breed. They are involved in showing, have champions and have years of experience under their belts. Their reputation depends on the puppies they sell so they are very careful about the pedigrees of their litters and the health testing done on the sire and dam. They have a lot of money invested in their breeding stock and take care of it. The best companions for a family come from show stock. Yes, the best pets come from show stock. Not only do the dogs look good but temperament is more likely to be even. The serious breeders are dedicated to the welfare of their chosen breed. They rarely advertise because their dogs sell themselves. The waiting lists for their puppies are long.

After researching the breed and finding breeders, the buyer needs to start the interviewing process.
By no means should this be done via email. The buyer either should make contact by phone or in person. This is a two way street. The buyer can see and/or hear what the breeder is like and the buyer is showing the breeder how dedicated he is in his search for the right puppy. The relationship between buyer and breeder is very important. Who else will help the buyer at 3 a.m. in the morning with a puppy question? A good breeder will be available to answer all questions, day and night, on weekends and yes, even on Christmas.
Be sure to familiarize yourself with the terminology.
Know what a pedigree is, know what NCL and what it is, know what OFA is. Ask questions if you don’t understand something. If the breeder claims to show, ask to see pictures and be leery of a bunch of blue, red, yellow or white ribbons. In essence, this means nothing in the quest for a championship.

The buyer should ask the breeder questions and if the breeder doesn’t have the answers, the choice of that particular breeder should be reevaluated. Some of these questions should include:

1. How many years have you been involved with this breed?
2. Why did you decide this was the breed for you?

3. Do you show your dogs? How often do you attend dog shows? How long have you been showing your dogs?

4. Do you have both parents on the premises? (This is a trick question. If the sire of the litter is there and is not a champion, this was probably a convenient breeding and no research has been done on pedigrees. Run.)

5. What health tests have been done on the parents of the litter? A visit to the veterinarian last week doesn’t count when it comes to health testing. (At the very minimum, OFA hips and elbows, NCL testing should be done. Do not accept the statement that the parents are very healthy and don’t need to be tested. The breeder should be able to back up a claim of testing with certificates. Actually take the time to look at the health papers and study them.)

6. Are the sire and dam registered? (A word here about registration. ABA,JDJ,UKC,NKC registration is preferred. There are other registries out there but they are less stringent about their registration procedures. Don’t be taken in by the answer of “yes”. Ask to see the registration papers.)

7. Is there a pedigree for the puppies that I can look at? (A good breeder will have one of these available.)

8. Are the dogs conformation champions, working title holders or do they have CGC (Canine Good Citizen) certificates? Are these certificates available for viewing? And if so, do the names on the certificates match the names on the registration papers? (All these things are ultimately temperament tests and very important things to consider for the future member of your family. If the breeder boasts about certain accomplishments, don’t take his word for it. Have him prove it)

9. Why did you breed this litter? (If the answer to this is anything but “I want to keep a puppy”, run as fast as you can. Litters of puppies are hard work and expensive to produce. Serious breeders don’t breed just to have puppies. They want to continue their lines and of course want to keep a puppy to show, etc.)

10. Do you have a sales contract? Ask to see a sample. (Companion dogs should be sold on limited registration. If there is nothing in the contract about spaying and neutering, ask yourself if this is a person you want to deal with.)

11. What health warranties do you have? What is the health history of the sire and dam of the litter? What did the ancestors of the puppies die of and how long did they live? (A minimum of two years for a warranty is fair for genetic defects such as hip dysplasia and progressive retinal atrophy or PRA. Know beforehand what diseases afflict your chosen breed. Every breed has something.)

12. What happens if I can’t keep this dog? (A good breeder will take the dog back at any time, no questions asked and find another home for it. The dog is the breeder’s responsibility for the dog’s entire life. This is called a right of first refusal clause.)







13. Do you have references? Ask for names.

14. When you see the puppies, are they clean, friendly and well fed? Runny eyes or puppies that hide in the corner are indications of problems down the road such as an illness or a fear biter. Ask to see the whole litter. Don’t accept the excuse that the rest of the puppies are sold and you don’t really need to see them. It is very important that you do see them. Maybe there are problems with the other puppies that the breeder is trying to hide.

16. Are the puppies raised in the home? Socialization is important for a well-adjusted puppy. If the puppies are kept in a shed out in the backyard or a kennel run, thank the people for their time and drive away. What are the temperaments of the parents like?

17. Is the breeder a member of the parent club for his breed or an affiliate club? These clubs have their own screening processes for membership. If the breeder claims to hold membership, ask for the name of the president of the club and check this out.

18. How does this person interact with the dogs? Kindly? Harshly? How do the dogs interact with him? Friendly? Fearful? Dogs have a sixth sense about people and observing a dog’s behavior serves as an important barometer.

19. Ask other people in the breed about this person. What is the reputation of the breeder? Beware of long silences or responses like, “I can’t recommend them”. If you are going to deal with this breeder, he should have a sterling reputation in the breed.

20. Lastly, what is your gut feeling about this person? Trust your instincts and people skills. Be wary of the fast talker, the one who boasts extensively. If they can’t provide proof to any claims, then they aren’t the breeder for you. You should feel comfortable with dealing with this person because you will have a long term working relationship with him.

Now it’s the breeder’s turn. The questions you are asked may be rather pointed and personal but don’t take offense. A good breeder wants to make sure you can supply a stable environment for the puppy. Breeders are sometimes leery of unmarried couples and people who rent their homes. Problems can crop up with these situations and more than likely the dog will end up going back to the breeder. Also, the breeder will ask you for references. Be wary if these things don’t happen.

The least favorite thing a breeder wants to hear is that you “just” want a pet. This implies that you are willing to sacrifice quality for a lower price. This will jeopardize your chances of buying a puppy from a good breeder. You need to dedicate yourself to finding the right puppy for you regardless of the price. Certainly a budget can be made and things have to be taken into account like feeding and vet expenses but think very carefully about what you really want. A healthy puppy that looks like the breed it is supposed to be will cost money. However, in the long run, it will also be a money saver. Vet expenses will be kept to a minimum over time. This dog will be a member of your family for years to come.

As with anything,
buying a purebred puppy is a buyer beware market.
Do your homework, take your time and be careful.

[niner]

a lot of very good info Attitude!

[Lisa]

Attitude's post covers a lot and should be a good start for you. I will add a few of my own thoughts...

First thing...although there is no shortage of AB breeders, there aren't a whole lot of "good" AB breeders. Honestly, the VAST majority of people breeding are not reputable and do fall under the "backyard" breeder category. Don't let flashy websites or glossy magazine ads fool you. ANYONE can put those things together. In no way is it an indication of quality dogs, good morals or ethics. Don't bet on being able to find a good breeder right in your own backyard and be prepared to travel or have a puppy shipped if you want to deal with someone reputable.

You can usually spot the people whose primary reason for breeding is to pad their wallets by filling the pet market. Stay away from those people. Some red flags are..

breeding stock are simply pet dogs. Never been worked or shown.

if you look at the pedigree of the progeny as well as the pedigrees of past progeny of the breeder and never see a line breeding good chance the dogs were just thrown together willy nilly based on looks and convenience. It's hard to have any real goals in a breeding program if everything is scatter bred. I like to deal with people who understand and appreciate what line breeding brings to the table and isn't afraid to go out of their way to breed to the right dog. Line breeding in itself is not an indication of a quality, knowledgeable breeder, don't get me wrong, however I would stay away from anyone who doesn't value this method of breeding.

ask breeder how they go about the puppy selection. Are the pups temperament tested prior or are people allowed to pick based on looks and pictures? I will not deal with any breeder who does not value temperament enough that they can't even wait until the pups are 7 weeks old or so to temperament test the litter first (preferably by someone the puppies do not know). This helps determine the stability of the puppies and helps increase the odds that the buyers are bringing a puppy home that is appropriate for their experience level and lifestyle. Puppies should not necessarily be picked based "on order of deposit" but should be tested and grouped based on their drive levels, dominance, confidence and placed accordingly. I know of some people who recently had a litter and actually returned 2 deposits because the pups were more than what the buyers wanted and they are trying to get them into working homes instead. Good breeders will hold onto puppies as long as it takes to get them into the right home even if it means sacrificing a puppy sale.

There are MANY AB shows and events throughout the year in many areas of the country. I suggest you get to a few and meet some people and their dogs. Where are you located? If you are lucky enough to have someone reputable in your area or within reasonable driving distance, your location would definitely help people make recommendations. It certainly wouldn't hurt getting to know some of the breed fanciers and breeders and develop a relationship with them first before committing to buying any puppy. It will also show the breeder that you are serious about finding a quality puppy and will be a dedicated owner.

I hope that was helpful. Good for you for wanting to do your research.

PS instead of focusing on looks and type, focus on temperament and health. Those are the important things and many of the good breeders will send you packing if you go to them saying you want a dog that "looks like Chance" . I know this isn't something you are going to want to hear but that would be taken as a "red flag" by a lot of the more reputable AB breeders.

[IluvAmericanBulldogs]

The only reason I brought up Chance is he is what I think of in "Looks" when I think of an American Bulldog. I've seen some very big bulky muscular dogs that are considered American Bulldog and they look nothing like I thought an American Bulldog was supposed. So I figured I'd ask on here and see if anyone know what type he was.

That is why I brought up chance here, that is the type of American Bulldog, size and build I am looking for. I just don't know what type he is, being that I've been told there are like 4 different types of American Bulldogs.

I am most concerned with Temperment and health, but I am also concerned in size and build. Some of these American Bulldogs I've seen looks like they could outweigh me and I'm not looking for a dog that big.

I originally wanted an American Pit Bull Terrier, but my husband doesn't. Due to the fact that they are prone to dog aggression and we have other dogs he feels its too much of a risk, he prefers the American Bull Dog. Which I am okay with, though I prefer the size and temperment of the American Pit Bull Terrier. Most of the Pits I have met have been between 40-60lbs (He also doesn't like the look of the APBT, and we have visited many many in the shelters and he just doesn't like them.) I almost came home with a 2 year old APBT a few weeks ago from the shelter to foster, a wonderful dog but my husband wasn't too keen on her so I had to pass her up, and luckily she was adopted soon after.

I totally love the APBT, and he said if I wanted one we would get one but I feel like we need to decide on a dog that we both can agree on, we both know we can live with and we both feel is best for our family. And personally I am not a labrador person. He loves labs and goldens and Great Pyrenees, I love Terriers, Bulldogs, and Hounds.

so we have 2 totally different wants and likes when it comes to dogs. Our first dog together was a poodle, because at my moms house all I ever had was poodles. So he got me a poodle, sadly the poodle did come from a back yard breeder and he has had multiple health problems and some temperment problems that stem obviously from breeding. After all his health problems began I swore never again would I go to any breeder. I would take the gamble with a rescue dog. We adopted our second dog from the shelter and she is a Terrier mix and a wonderful girl, but now that we have a child involved I almost think it might be best to find a reputable breeder.

Also we aren't exactly looking to get another dog for about 6 years but I like to start my research early. The most reseach I have done has been on a few bulldog websites, dogbreedinfo.com, dogster.com and the UKC.

Again we are just starting our research but from what we have read so far the American Bulldog seems to be a good fit. (Other than size)

[Lisa]

Chance was a mostly "Johnson" dog although he looked more like your hybrids of today and maybe technically was a "hybrid" due to the small amount of Scott blood in the pedigree. Today's Johnson dogs are noticeably different than many of the earlier Johnson dogs. Here is Chance's page on the pedigree database. You can see pictures of most of the dogs in his pedigree there. American Bulldog: Sure-Grip's Rattler pedigree information

Keep in mind American bulldogs are prone to dog aggression as well. They often won't "play nice with others" so if you are looking for a breed that you can take to the dog park this is not be the breed for you.

There are some breeders of standard and hybrid types that aren't breeding for the monsters so don't worry about that.

Again, where are you located?

[IluvAmericanBulldogs]

We are located in the Southeast USA. I can't give an exact location because when we get this dog we won't be in our current state, we will still be in the southeast but just not here.


I am not looking for a dog to take to the dog park, simply because I hate dog parks. But I do have 2 small dogs and I need a dog to be able to get along with them. I always heard American Bulldogs were good with other dogs....so am I to presume this isn't true?

[Carrie]

American Bulldogs are just as prone to dog aggression as an APBT... any of the bully breeds have a tendancy to have some degree of dog and small animal aggression. While it is most common within dogs of the same sex (male on male or female on female) it can just depend on the personalities of the dogs.


When you have a bullbreed in the house you need to be more aware of your surroundings... do not have objects such as toys or food bowls that are accessible to all of the dogs at the same time as these items may spur fights, feed everyone seperately, never leave them alone unnattented together, learn dog postures and be able to stop or prevent a fight before it starts, be on top of early and consistent obedience training. If you are careful and aware, you can avoid trouble.

Please don't think I am out to discourage and make bullbreeds out to be monsters... just realize that all bullbreeds have the potential for some type of dog agression and that it is up to you to recognize signs and do your part to prevent it.