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Roxy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
After the two attacks from guard dogs I'm curious as to what training is needed. Why did the 2 dogs kill a baby and why did the GSD police dog rip a childs ear off? Are they not trained to know the difference? or is there a weakness in the breeds from over breeding?

Excuse my ignorance, I'm learning.
 
#2 ·
Guard dogs.... not sure what you meant, but it sounds like a generalization. There are properly trained Personal Protection dogs, Police dogs and Sport dogs and not all are universally suitable for each venue.... except the good ones!

Many reasons are involved... the biggest factors are a lack of proper training, that in addition to poor candidate selection and idiots as handlers... LOL.

What training is needed? First you have to have a suitable candidate, secondly you have to have a good trainer and thirdly you have to be a good handler.

8)
 
#3 ·
Not overbreeding...

Again it is the lack of proper breeding... The gene pool of suitable dogs for these types of training has diminished over the decades. IMO it is directly attributable to the lack of breed suitability testing and working titles in the breeds.

8)
 
#4 ·
Roxy said:
After the two attacks from guard dogs I'm curious as to what training is needed. Why did the 2 dogs kill a baby and why did the GSD police dog rip a childs ear off? Are they not trained to know the difference? or is there a weakness in the breeds from over breeding?

Excuse my ignorance, I'm learning.
Click to expand...
You seem to have been around WAY TOO LONG to still be asking IGNORANT questions.

JMO :wink:
 
#5 ·
It's also up to the budget that the particular police force has, or gaurd company. Not all police dogs are properly trained. And not all gaurd dogs are properly trained either. If the company or force is on a low budget, then they get crapp dogs that they are able to badge in a heartbeat. From what I've heard - different police forces have very different budgets and it will really show in the quality of their dogs. Shouldn't be that way, but the system isn't perfect.
 
#6 ·
Willis said:
Roxy said:
After the two attacks from guard dogs I'm curious as to what training is needed. Why did the 2 dogs kill a baby and why did the GSD police dog rip a childs ear off? Are they not trained to know the difference? or is there a weakness in the breeds from over breeding?

Excuse my ignorance, I'm learning.
Click to expand...
You seem to have been around WAY TOO LONG to still be asking IGNORANT questions.

JMO :wink:
Click to expand...
And you don't seem to have been around long enough to make sweeping generalizations. JMO :wink:
 
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#7 ·
redbull said:
It's also up to the budget that the particular police force has, or gaurd company. Not all police dogs are properly trained. And not all gaurd dogs are properly trained either. If the company or force is on a low budget, then they get crapp dogs that they are able to badge in a heartbeat. From what I've heard - different police forces have very different budgets and it will really show in the quality of their dogs. Shouldn't be that way, but the system isn't perfect.
Click to expand...
Absolutely! I have seen some very poor GSD's get pushed through the training and testing because to get a new dog just wasn't in this years budget.... This is all good though! ...... if your the bad guy..LOL.

:shock:
 
#8 ·
Willis said:
Roxy said:
After the two attacks from guard dogs I'm curious as to what training is needed. Why did the 2 dogs kill a baby and why did the GSD police dog rip a childs ear off? Are they not trained to know the difference? or is there a weakness in the breeds from over breeding?

Excuse my ignorance, I'm learning.
Click to expand...
You seem to have been around WAY TOO LONG to still be asking IGNORANT questions.

JMO :wink:
Click to expand...
these are the kinds of remarks that keep people from asking questions! NO question is a dumb question..... This is a place for learning and sharing. Why OH why do people have to be so RUDE?
 
#10 ·
Roxy said:
After the two attacks from guard dogs I'm curious as to what training is needed. Why did the 2 dogs kill a baby and why did the GSD police dog rip a childs ear off? Are they not trained to know the difference? or is there a weakness in the breeds from over breeding?

Excuse my ignorance, I'm learning.
Click to expand...
In my opinion, I would say it is due to lack of proper socialization before beginning any form of "aggression" training. All of our dogs are heavily socialized before they begin personal protection training. Of my five dogs, four of them are pp trained (Jaeger my 17wk old APBT just started pp training). All four of them also passed their Canine Good Cititzen award test and are certified as therapy dogs. I refuse to protection train a dog if they show any signs of fear or unwarranted aggression toward persons of any age. Protection training, when done properly, does not produce an aggressive dog. It simply gives you control over the dog's natural instinct to protect its pack against a threat.
 
#11 ·
In my opinion, I would say it is due to lack of proper socialization before beginning any form of "aggression" training. All of our dogs are heavily socialized before they begin personal protection training. Of my five dogs, four of them are pp trained (Jaeger my 17wk old APBT just started pp training). All four of them also passed their Canine Good Cititzen award test and are certified as therapy dogs. I refuse to protection train a dog if they show any signs of fear or unwarranted aggression toward persons of any age. Protection training, when done properly, does not produce an aggressive dog. It simply gives you control over the dog's natural instinct to protect its pack against a threat.
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You have (like you needed me to tell) a good point with socialization for dogs regardless of any type of protection/sport training or anything else. I don't overly socialize my dogs, I want them to be with me and I don't have these poor temperament issues. I feel that well bred dogs in general do not need to be overly socialized to make it in society. Socialization IMO is somewhat over rated, don't get me wrong "it has it's purpose".... but it's not the fix for poor breeding of temperament.

And I do not buy into the whole CGC "as a temperament test" ... but that will have to be another discussion....
 
#12 ·
I have a question about PP trained dogs..................Since the dog is trained to attack on command, should the dog attack without the handler giving a command under normal conditions i.e. not a robbery or odd behavior?(or someone else that knows the commands around)

I am wondering bc I have a friend of a friend that has a PP trained American Bulldog that he got bc it's orginal owner passed away. They went out of town for a couple of days and left the dog at home. His brother-in-law was supposed to come three times a day to let him out and play etc. The dog would not let him in the house. I think that a dog should bark but I was under the impression that PP dogs should be of superior intelligence meaning they should know/sense the difference between a friend or foe(ecspecially since the dog knew the person checking on him). I am I under the wrong impression, I am interested to hear your thoughts/experience..............Thanks!!!
 
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#13 ·
I agree with Wrknrot. A good dog with a stable temperament should not require an abundance of socialization. If the genetics are there, the dog should be able to function well in society without all that extra "help". I know trainers who have working dogs that are kenneled outside and basically only brought out for training purposes. Mind you, they do alot of training, so its not like they are stuck in a kennel all the time, but their owners do not take them out to do meet and greets at the park or out to Petsmart and all that other stuff many pet owners seem to do. The only places they are really brought are working events and shows. Rather than using these times to "condition" their dogs to certain situations,, they use it to expose temperamental flaws in their dogs. I think that is the difference between people who really care about temperament and those who don't. There are people who do don't make excuses for their dogs temperaments, and there are people who will condition the hell out of their dog to try and mask any temperamental problems their dogs may have. A good dog doesnt need conditioning.
 
#14 ·
angie7349 said:
I have a question about PP trained dogs..................Since the dog is trained to attack on command, should the dog attack without the handler giving a command under normal conditions i.e. not a robbery or odd behavior?(or someone else that knows the commands around)

I am wondering bc I have a friend of a friend that has a PP trained American Bulldog that he got bc it's orginal owner passed away. They went out of town for a couple of days and left the dog at home. His brother-in-law was supposed to come three times a day to let him out and play etc. The dog would not let him in the house. I think that a dog should bark but I was under the impression that PP dogs should be of superior intelligence meaning they should know/sense the difference between a friend or foe(ecspecially since the dog knew the person checking on him). I am I under the wrong impression, I am interested to hear your thoughts/experience..............Thanks!!!
Click to expand...

My expectations of a PP trained dog.... the handler always has control! You (the handler) have a responsibility of the actions of your dog and this should be taken into consideration whenever you decide how you want your dog to protect you. A dog is not all intelligent and all knowing... he is an animal with very limited ability to reason.

Since your friend of a friend that acquired a dog from someone else that was already trained in PP... there are just way too many variables to give a simple answer as too why.

8)
 
#16 ·
fawn coffee said:
how can u expect a dog to no the differnts between a stranger that has good intentions and 1 that has good 1s
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People that are doing wrong act weird: elevated heart rate, sweating, nervous, agressive body language, unless they are a professional criminal,someone with ill intent will not respond to a situation the way that a person with no malicious intent would: calm, relaxed, peaceful body language this person could be scared of the dog but they will not approach the dog the way that someone with ill intentions would.


Wrknrot thanks for the answer!!! :D
 
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#17 ·
angie7349 said:
fawn coffee said:
how can u expect a dog to no the differnts between a stranger that has good intentions and 1 that has good 1s
Click to expand...
People that are doing wrong act weird: elevated heart rate, sweating, nervous, agressive body language, unless they are a professional criminal,someone with ill intent will not respond to a situation the way that a person with no malicious intent would: calm, relaxed, peaceful body language this person could be scared of the dog but they will not approach the dog the way that someone with ill intentions would.
Click to expand...
A good person that is afraid and/or intimidated will display similar reactions and/or fears that trigger like responses.... the dog can not differentiate.

:?
 
#18 ·
angie......

I agree with working rott and others. One cannot allow a PP dog to guess.

In my view, ONE of the major difference between a "sport protection dog" and a "personal protection dog" is that a personal protection dog DOES NOT ENGAGE ON ITS OWN. NEVER. Some will argue about this point, but those that do don't train real personal protection dog for the real world. Ask ANY lawyer. And if you don't think a lawyer will not be involved in this decision process, think again. There are many aspects of "work" the dog must do RELIABLY and predictably.

Some may argue about home invasion. Should the dog not guard on its own? What if your family member is crawling into the window late at night, in the dark or comes into the back yard? Do you want your trained dog to react on its own? Probably not. Most clients do not fully understand the ramification of their request and it is up to the responsible trainer to educate the client and match the dog with the client.
You STILL want control.
Now, some may confuse a sentry dog (junk yard dog) with a PP dog. There is a HUGE difference.
YOu see, the dog WANTS to bite. Training the dog, with the right temperment, is training it WHEN NOT TO BITE AND WHEN IT IS APPROPRIATE WHEN IT COMPLIES WITH THE HANDLER'S COMMAND.

A dog is not a mind reader and if you expect it to be, you are in for a rude and expensive awakening.
 
#19 ·
I was wondering bc I thought that it was a bad thing this dog was reacting ........I thought that when it came to PP dogs that was laibility, to have a dog that was willing to react (bite) without the owners command...The dog did not bite him but I was just curious if this was a bad thing ...Thanks again guys
 
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#20 ·
hey, some dogs are just natural dinks. They may just be dominant. So you deal with it.

If the dog is new, then what did you expect? Even if it was protection trained, THE NEW OWNER HAS NOT BEEN TRAINED. Many people forget that a PP dog is a TEAM.

In addition, I would be VERY careful about these so called PP dogs, unless I have SEEN the training. I am not a fan of constant agitation training.

Bottom line is this. If he can deal with it, keep it. If he thinks it is too much for him, get him a new home. Life is simple.
 
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