are they cruel? Just looking for oppinions, thinking about getting one for lewie, he likes to attack cars when we walk, and he really lunges. I'm a big guy, and even I have trouble controlling him.
what do you think about pinch collars?
Brian P.
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LMAO!!!!!!! :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing6: :laughing6:Cinder said:
No pinch....LOL....*sigh* priceless.....
For the pinch COLLAR topic, it has not made any difference with my dogs. Haley with a pinch is just like Haley with a normal collar. She has pulled SO hard on the pinch that I can barley put it on her anymore because she bent all the links. I swear that dog feels no pain.
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Gentle leaders....would you say it is the same thing as a Halti?Lisa said:
Do you not recommend Haltis?
Different dogs respond differently. A gentle leader is a looser Halti BTW.
As for prongs / pinch, my dog Tank will pull against both untill he passes out from lack of oxygen. A halti was the only thing that stopped him. Now he heels just fine with a normal collar, we only use the Halti if we are going to be around strange animals.
Lisa,
As for guiding a dogs head around not being good training, I suppose that pulling them around by the neck is so much better? Last I checked, the two were firmly attatched..... Other than the level discomfort to your dog, I don't see the difference. As for correction/training, that is where the owner comes in. If you want to use a pinch/prong collar, fine. But to say one is better than the other is too simplistic.
For example Mom's shepard freaked over the Halti so much that it was a detriment. So try them all.
As for prongs / pinch, my dog Tank will pull against both untill he passes out from lack of oxygen. A halti was the only thing that stopped him. Now he heels just fine with a normal collar, we only use the Halti if we are going to be around strange animals.
Lisa,
As for guiding a dogs head around not being good training, I suppose that pulling them around by the neck is so much better? Last I checked, the two were firmly attatched..... Other than the level discomfort to your dog, I don't see the difference. As for correction/training, that is where the owner comes in. If you want to use a pinch/prong collar, fine. But to say one is better than the other is too simplistic.
For example Mom's shepard freaked over the Halti so much that it was a detriment. So try them all.
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LMAO!!! Their faces SO go with the captions! You should of put that in for the pout contest! Priceless!attitude said:we'll be good, we'll be good!
![Image]()
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I agree, this would have won the 'Best Pout' contest hands down. lolattitude said:I prefer the sharpened ones the best! Like when you have to pop the links out of the
we'll be good, we'll be good!
![Image]()
Prong collar is the same as a pinch collar....Grizwald said:
Also... in all seriousness you only have to use a level of correction that gives the desired response, no more no less! As far as those who's dogs pull on a pinch prong... you are not using the tool correctly. You have to correct the dog, if he eases into the prong (and you let him) he'll pull!
8)
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If you are "pulling them around" by a prong collar, you aren't using it correctly. A prong collar should be used as a correction device, not power steering for dogs. Head halti's (gentle leaders) are power steering tools. I took a course with a gentle leader trainer before..they do not advocate corrections. At least the one I trained with didn't. She even went on to actually say that she called the GL method "power steering for dogs". Maybe not all GL trainers are the same but this is the attitude of the one I had.
With a prong collar you give the dog a command with a loose lead. Your dog blows you off, it gets a quick correction. A "POP" not a pull.
There is a difference between the two. Gentle leaders are more of a guiding device. Prong or choke collars are used as a means of correcting non compliance.
Like I said, maybe not all GL trainers re the same but this is what my experience was. It was like a whole different concept than what I use now.
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Maybe its a Petsmart Thing
Every single time I would go into any Petsmart looking for a corrective collar, the various trainers and salespeople would try pushing the gentle leader on me. And everytime they did, I hesitated. I'm glad I did. I'm not sure why they ALL have a thing for them. I've seen them in action and for my particular dog, they are absolutely useless. I've seen them on Great Danes and they seemed to work just fine. But I'd imagine the 2 would be different in terms of walking and pulling. :scratch: But I could be wrong.
Every single time I would go into any Petsmart looking for a corrective collar, the various trainers and salespeople would try pushing the gentle leader on me. And everytime they did, I hesitated. I'm glad I did. I'm not sure why they ALL have a thing for them. I've seen them in action and for my particular dog, they are absolutely useless. I've seen them on Great Danes and they seemed to work just fine. But I'd imagine the 2 would be different in terms of walking and pulling. :scratch: But I could be wrong.
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if you put a gl on a high strung or driven dog with an inexperienced handler and you have the potential to do MUCH more harm to the dog than you ever could with a prong collar. i am not a fan of gl's.
that said i notice ALOT of people on this board post pics of their dogs wearing prong collars that are improperly fitted, a prong that isn't fitted properly does not work either
that said i notice ALOT of people on this board post pics of their dogs wearing prong collars that are improperly fitted, a prong that isn't fitted properly does not work either
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when i took Orson to puppy OB, that is the first thing I learned,
his prong was not on correctly. It was too loose, took couple links
out then next correction only took a small pop. Worked like a charm.
Haltis and such dont fit Orson, his snout is too short.
I take him for walks wearing a no-pull harness, he's not much of
a puller but I take treats and a squeek toy with me.
If he starts to pull, i squeek his toy, he'll slow and turn to me and I give
him a treat.
his prong was not on correctly. It was too loose, took couple links
out then next correction only took a small pop. Worked like a charm.
Haltis and such dont fit Orson, his snout is too short.
I take him for walks wearing a no-pull harness, he's not much of
a puller but I take treats and a squeek toy with me.
If he starts to pull, i squeek his toy, he'll slow and turn to me and I give
him a treat.
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That is very common Sara. The important thing is you learned the proper way to fit one and weren't afraid to do it. I swear some of the people KNOW they are fitting them incorrectly but refuse to change it because they feel osrry for the dog or something. Why bother purchasing training equipment if you have no intention of using it correctly? :?
BTW Attitude....when did you get that fish tank? Was that there the last time I was over? For some reason I don't remember it. I used to have a fish tank, just got tired of keeping it clean and fish dying on me all the time!
BTW Attitude....when did you get that fish tank? Was that there the last time I was over? For some reason I don't remember it. I used to have a fish tank, just got tired of keeping it clean and fish dying on me all the time!
Orson,
Yah, a halti won't work with a very short muzzle.
Lisa,
Guiding the head, pulling around, whatever. All training is a matter of guidance, isn't it? I just perfer NOT to make discomfort a training device.
If you want to make pain your training method, great, it's your dog. Alot of people do. But to just dismiss a Halti out of hand is wrong. If Tank tries pulling on his Halti, it stops him immediatly, with no pain. I really can't see the problem with that.
The biggest problem with a Halti is that alot of dog's don't like them, so they may not work in every occasion.
At least give the dog a chance to learn before using pain as your perferred method of correction.
Yah, a halti won't work with a very short muzzle.
Lisa,
Guiding the head, pulling around, whatever. All training is a matter of guidance, isn't it? I just perfer NOT to make discomfort a training device.
If you want to make pain your training method, great, it's your dog. Alot of people do. But to just dismiss a Halti out of hand is wrong. If Tank tries pulling on his Halti, it stops him immediatly, with no pain. I really can't see the problem with that.
The biggest problem with a Halti is that alot of dog's don't like them, so they may not work in every occasion.
At least give the dog a chance to learn before using pain as your perferred method of correction.
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Turtle, I take extreme offence to that comment.
Honestly, what makes you think that I do not TEACH my dogs what are expected of them prior to utilizing corrections? Have you never heard of positive and negative training?
You obviously, know very little about me or you would not have made such an ignorant comment. Trust me, my dogs are all taught by 100% motivational methods. In fact the female in my banner was hand fed all her meals during training exercises as a puppy and did not eat out of a bowl until she was almost 6 months old. Everything she learned was taught 100% motivationally. She earned her every meal and was very happy to perform for me in exchange for her food. The prong collar was never utilized until she was much older, was cognizant of the commands she was being given, and mature enough to handle a physical correction. I am extremely fair to my dogs when I train them.
Lisa,
Sorry if you take offence. I shouldn't have used the word perferred, it does come across badly. I do not mean to say that you are such a person.
And yes, of course I have heard all of that.
But the simple fact is the that those collars work off of discomfort to your dog. I don't know you. So I am not making a personal observation. I did NOT say that they, or you, were cruel. I said that I don't like using pain as a training method. Those collars are designed to be painful. You use them. That means that you use pain in training.
If the thought of using pain as a tool is insulting to you, mebbe you should think twice about the collar?
Sorry if you take offence. I shouldn't have used the word perferred, it does come across badly. I do not mean to say that you are such a person.
And yes, of course I have heard all of that.
But the simple fact is the that those collars work off of discomfort to your dog. I don't know you. So I am not making a personal observation. I did NOT say that they, or you, were cruel. I said that I don't like using pain as a training method. Those collars are designed to be painful. You use them. That means that you use pain in training.
If the thought of using pain as a tool is insulting to you, mebbe you should think twice about the collar?
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That is not what was insulting to me. What I find offensive is that you assume people are not using motivational methods to teach their dog commands prior to using a correction. No dog is going to be 100% reliable and listen to their handler everytime a command is given, no matter how good the foundation was.
So, how do you chose to deal with this problem? Do you use the GL to give a correction if your dog blows yo off? If so, how do you execute it? I am not being smart here either because I would really like to know.
I use a clicker. It will get his attention. Then I use the Halti for exactly what you said earlier, to guide his head away from whatever is getting him riled.
That is why I like the Halti - I control the dog's direction, not just his motion.
It takes a while but now a click to get his attention then a tug and a firm heel will do it.
Once again I apologize if I gave offence - it was not my intent, I just really don't like those collars.
That is why I like the Halti - I control the dog's direction, not just his motion.
It takes a while but now a click to get his attention then a tug and a firm heel will do it.
Once again I apologize if I gave offence - it was not my intent, I just really don't like those collars.
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Thank you for the explanation.
So, I guess it is safe to assume (and please correct me if I am not assuming correctly) that with your training method there is no "price to pay" for non compliance?
For example, if you tell your dog to sit and it ignores you, what would be your response to that non compliance?
So, I guess it is safe to assume (and please correct me if I am not assuming correctly) that with your training method there is no "price to pay" for non compliance?
For example, if you tell your dog to sit and it ignores you, what would be your response to that non compliance?
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