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Bullies, Pain & Shock Collars

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OrsonDogge

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Ok, i know this subject has come up before but i want to know first hand experience with your bulldog and shock collars.
Bullies are known for working thru pain, so do they actually work with bulldogs??

For instance, at agility class today some loose dogs ran to other side of our fence barking, well a "fence fight" broke out between them and Orson & he was trying to get at them so bad he bloodied his face up on the fence.

I can control Orson if he's on leash but like that, i cant. I am just afraid he will really hurt himself on the fence if that happens again.
Only thing i can think of to stop him is a shock from a collar...but if he really wants to get at those dogs, would a shock stop him?
:?
 
#2 ·
The bark collars (which used progressive shocks) hurt my dogs. They looked like they were having seizures. And the more they cried, the more they got shocked, as I stood there helpless. It was very painful to watch. I'd be interested in seeing how one is used by remote control though. I'm sure it is an effective tool when used the right way. I just hated seeing my babies in pain!
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
yeah, that would suck. :(
But i would rather put Orson in a few seconds of pain (to direct his attention off those dogs) than to take him to vet for stitches from ripping his face off on fence.
 
#4 ·
I have the Innotek UltraSmart 2- dog micro trainer. But I havent used it yet. lol....I have seen the remote collars work on my neighbor's APBT. But I don't think he is dog aggressive...or at least not toward Legend. I think the owner uses the collar mostly when they are in their front yard. She press's the button when he tries to walk out of the yard which gives a beep and he walks back closer to his owner.
 
#5 ·
LegendsMami said:
I have the Innotek UltraSmart 2- dog micro trainer. But I havent used it yet. lol....I have seen the remote collars work on my neighbor's APBT. But I don't think he is dog aggressive...or at least not toward Legend. I think the owner uses the collar mostly when they are in their front yard. She press's the button when he tries to walk out of the yard which gives a beep and he walks back closer to his owner.
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That's what I would like to try for my dogs, but haven't had the time. I'm sure it works really well when used properly.
 
#6 ·
I was taking an obedience class a while back with Chico and he was being really snotty when dogs walked past him so the trainer suggested we tried a shock collar. He got zapped right when he tried to go after a dog and it scared the crap out of him. I don't think it hurt him so much as it just really scared the crap out of him. I felt really bad though and I'm not really sure if it helped the situation. I think he left hating dogs more than he did before.
 
#7 ·
Chico.Heidi said:
I was taking an obedience class a while back with Chico and he was being really snotty when dogs walked past him so the trainer suggested we tried a shock collar. He got zapped right when he tried to go after a dog and it scared the crap out of him. I don't think it hurt him so much as it just really scared the crap out of him. I felt really bad though and I'm not really sure if it helped the situation. I think he left hating dogs more than he did before.
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That has been another fear of mine as well. I remember during the bark collar incident, they turned on each other because they couldn't figure out where the pain was coming from. They say every pit bull has DA in them, I'd hate to "trigger it" in some way, then lose control of it, and end up with a bigger problem on my hands. Some dogs might respond just as well to a startling noise. I used to use a can filled with coins for my cocker when I was younger. Any time he'd do something bad, I'd shake that can. He hated it, but he sure learned quickly.
 
#8 ·
Get with a trainer that can teach Mr. O to pay attention to YOU. No one or anything will change his feelings about other dogs but you can manage the behavior by teaching him to focus on you............I think that shock collars are great tools but not for dog aggression. If you deliver a shock everytime he hits the red zone you will only make it worse.
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
If you deliver a shock everytime he hits the red zone you will only make it worse
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that is what i think too, and we do the "pay attention to me" training when we take walks. But when he's loose in that big agility yard and those dogs
run up to the fence, i cant get his attention. He's so fast that by the time i turn around he's at fence and already in the "red zone" and no getting him outta it. He can really hurt himself on the metal fence.

The weird part about his "fence fighting" today was after i dragged him away and the dogs had left, he really acted depressed and sad. Like that fight really upset him and shook him up, took him a while to start acting normal. :?
 
#10 ·
We got the Dogtra 1500 ecollar for Mo just recently. It is working very well for us. The charge is adjustable and reliable and there is no delay (the timing of the charge is important). The point is not to deliver pain but to get their attention. I am already learning at what setting he will notice the collar (it varies with how focused he is on what he is doing, which makes the adjustability very nice). I can easily tolerate the setting he responds to in most circumstances. It is not painful, it is like a tap, or like the reflex thing the doctor does with your knee.

We were cautioned in using them prior to us being trained because they can easily associate the shock with something else, like the dog on the other side of the fence. Which could compound the problem as angie was saying.

We did get to entrap Mo with the collar because he was starting to door dash through our screen door to get at squirrels or run with the neighbors dog into their house to steal the other dogs food (long story). We set him up and got him twice when he thought we weren't looking. He wont go out the door without permission now even if it is wide open, and it didn't take but two nicks with the collar. I'm sold!....and I was able to fix the screen once and for all.

Mo has no fear of the collar at all btw, in fact he seems to like it. :roll:

They sell the Dogtra collars on leerburg.com.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
The point is not to deliver pain but to get their attention.
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That is what i want, something to get his attention when he takes off after the fence dogs...cause he has already gone "red zone" and me calling his name and squeeking his toy does not work (it works when we go for walks with other dogs around).

I am already learning at what setting he will notice the collar (it varies with how focused he is on what he is doing
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This is also a concern, that he is too focused on the other dogs and maybe no setting will be startling enough. I guess i'd have to see.

Do they have a return policy on these collars?

We were cautioned in using them prior to us being trained because they can easily associate the shock with something else, like the dog on the other side of the fence. Which could compound the problem as angie was saying.
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I think if the collar give out a shock when he starts charging and he turns to me, i will reward with his ball. Maybe he will associate the shock with "he gets something good" not "punishment at sight of dog". Hmmmm.
 
#12 ·
I have a shock collar for Kate when we go up to the moutains.
It is not for DA but for running off
The first time I used it on her, I could not, so my uncle did and I was not around. He didn't set it TOO high but when he used it, he said she jumped and came running right back
Now I just have to put the collar on her and she listens immediately
It is the remote one so you can set it to use a noise, noise and shock, or shock only and has about 14 different settings of shock
 
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#13 ·
OrsonDogge said:
The point is not to deliver pain but to get their attention.
Click to expand...
That is what i want, something to get his attention when he takes off after the fence dogs...cause he has already gone "red zone" and me calling his name and squeeking his toy does not work (it works when we go for walks with other dogs around).

I am already learning at what setting he will notice the collar (it varies with how focused he is on what he is doing
Click to expand...
This is also a concern, that he is too focused on the other dogs and maybe no setting will be startling enough. I guess i'd have to see.

Do they have a return policy on these collars?

We were cautioned in using them prior to us being trained because they can easily associate the shock with something else, like the dog on the other side of the fence. Which could compound the problem as angie was saying.
Click to expand...
I think if the collar give out a shock when he starts charging and he turns to me, i will reward with his ball. Maybe he will associate the shock with "he gets something good" not "punishment at sight of dog". Hmmmm.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure there is a return policy, but I don't know what it is.

Your last sentence is the key, because the timing is everything with the nick. One second late and you nick him as he is returning to you and he could associate 'listening to mom and leaving the dog at the fence' as bad. As long as you are careful and conscious with the timing you will do fine. We are just learning too and have had no problems at all.

As far as the settings, there is a nick and a continuous button on the Dogtra. The nick it just a tap the cont keeps the charge going. Between the adjustability and the continuous button you will be able to find a setting the Orson will notice even when distracted, no problem. That is what the collar is designed for. I like ours because on the flip side you can step it down to something very, very light so he isn't getting fried everytime we nick him. When you entrap them you want the association though and you can set the charge higher. Running through the screen door: ALWAYS BAD. We set it higher and Mo yelped and jumped. It was only at 50 out of 100 so there is a lot of room on the higher end if your dog is more tolerant.

They say in the manual that you work from the lowest setting up to see what he will notice. What you are looking for, to find a setting, is an ear tick, a sniff, a muscle tick or something like that, not a yelp where your dog comes running back to you in a heap.


It has a pager on it also which vibrates the collar.
 
#14 ·
We bought one for Koda a few months back...paid over $200 for it, and I'll never do it again. I know they say it doesn't hurt them, but it killed me watching him cry when he got shocked. It had the remote control and the highest setting was at 8, and the highest we ever took it was 2. You could give a "warning" beep before actually shocking them, and now all he has to hear is something beeps and he thinks he's going to get shocked and goes and runs to hide. Needless to say, I made the hubby take it back, and I'll do whatever possible to teach him versus shocking him.
 
#16 ·
why would it bother some dogs soooooo much and not others? Is their pain tolerance really that different??
 
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Discussion starter · #17 ·
why would it bother some dogs soooooo much and not others? Is their pain tolerance really that different??
Click to expand...
Ive only heard Orson yelp or give any sign of pain twice in his 2 years of life. I think some might yelp for the attention factor :wink: if they yelp even with minor pain they get a "awwww, poor baby let me make it better". They know what they are doing. :lol:

I know they say it doesn't hurt them, but it killed me watching him cry when he got shocked.
Click to expand...
This collar will be used very rarely, only at the agility yard. And 2 times now he's ran at another dog on the other side of fence and tried to get thru fence. For safety i feel that one "cry" will be better than a vet visit.
He really hurt himself yesterday, his mouth was bloody and he got metal scrape marks on his front teeth. :shock:

It is the remote one so you can set it to use a noise, noise and shock, or shock only and has about 14 different settings of shock
Click to expand...
Do you know the brand name on it.

Thanks Cannon, i will visit that website! :D
 
#18 ·
Kate said:
why would it bother some dogs soooooo much and not others? Is their pain tolerance really that different??
Click to expand...
I have no clue about the pain tolerance, but I think it hurt Koda's feelings more than anything that we were "hurting" him, because all I do is baby him. That's my fault, I know, but he's like my child, and that's just how I am. It upset my husband that I wouldn't let him use it, but I just couldn't stand hearing him holler and seeing him jump and have fear in his eyes. I want my dogs to love me not fear me.
 
#19 ·
I guess some dogs are more sensitive to the zap. But I also think it may be the circumstance that you are using it for. I may be way off here but for bolting out the door, the dog isn't really worked up in an aggressive state so maybe they're more sensitive to the zap. But with a dog that is totally focussed on trying to get at another dog, a little zap may not seem like such a big deal. I really don't know but I think the zap on Chico sort of reinforced that other dogs were bad and they must be killed. It was like the zap came from the other dog. If he were loose at the time, he would have definitly attacked the dog. Unfortionately. :cry:
 
#20 ·
OrsonDogge said:
why would it bother some dogs soooooo much and not others? Is their pain tolerance really that different??
Click to expand...
Ive only heard Orson yelp or give any sign of pain twice in his 2 years of life. I think some might yelp for the attention factor :wink: if they yelp even with minor pain they get a "awwww, poor baby let me make it better". They know what they are doing. :lol:

I know they say it doesn't hurt them, but it killed me watching him cry when he got shocked.
Click to expand...
This collar will be used very rarely, only at the agility yard. And 2 times now he's ran at another dog on the other side of fence and tried to get thru fence. For safety i feel that one "cry" will be better than a vet visit.
He really hurt himself yesterday, his mouth was bloody and he got metal scrape marks on his front teeth. :shock:

It is the remote one so you can set it to use a noise, noise and shock, or shock only and has about 14 different settings of shock
Click to expand...
Do you know the brand name on it.

Thanks Cannon, i will visit that website! :D
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to say it's cruel to use them, and I know the yelping was probably for attention, but it's just a form I would rather not use. I tried it and didn't like it, so we're trying other methods. We were using it mainly for his "hard-headed" ways, so it's a different story with you and Orson due to aggression.
 
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OrsonDogge
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