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A - you bring up some really great points. I used to be all about sticking to "purebred" working dogs - no outcrossing or mixing of breeds. But the more reading I do and the more I talk to you and Mike I see that outcrossing is necessary and can be a great advantage if done correctly. But if it's about improving the working dog (not just bulldogs) then why is it important for breeders to hang papers for conformation registries? Form follows function, correct?

Mods this is a really great discussion and may be better suited for the debate/discussion section rather than the health section...


EDIT: I was writing this as you posted. So there are sports in which dogs can't compete unless they are registered? I did not realize this... I realize that dogs who aren't registered with a kennel club or are fixed can't compete in conformation but didn't realize sports wouldn't allow unregistered dogs...
 

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Jo - I'm not all that up on my bloodlines as far as horses go but I do know a few. And sadly all the halter horses I've been seeing in the major show rings are the BEEFY horses with short legs and hooves the size of a tea cup saucer. I'm personally into foundation type QH's because the ones I have experience with have the turn & burn with the brains. At my job we have all different types of QH's and TB's and my favorites are the fairly lazy horses that know their job and will do it when asked. We have horses that won't work or are hot tempered and those are the horses I hate teaching people to ride on because I'm teaching beginners.

Anyways, to tie this into back into dogs it's all about personal preference anymore. We have those like Alison, Mike, and Lisa who are all about the working dog. Then we have those of us who just want pets. And there are those who are into conformation showing. There tends to be a huge difference in all these types within one breed. Again it's about preference. I would prefer a pet that has a solid temperament and that I can get into the working world.
 

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At what point will the AB be bred cautiously enough to not require an outcross? Or does the AB NEED new blood to survive?
John - I honestly believe that every breed/line needs new blood at some point or another. This also applies to other species. I'm sure Jo and I could talk about horses and the need to outcross because of issues in certain breeds/bloodlines.

not necessarily the money that the big horse races bring . . .
not much money in your typical registered horse right now either . . .

I mean the ppl who show registered dogs, I would imagine you are showing and breeding, promoting your bloodlines and in order to breed, raise, show, you would need papered dogs . . .

you hear so many bad things about defects in litters . . . I would hope there are some responsible, knowledgeable breeders out there raising good quality pups?????
There are some great breeders out there raising good quality pups BUT most who are being responsible aren't necessarily making money and aren't looking to really make a living off of them. There are other breeders out there who aren't really working with registered dogs because they are actually working their animals (hunting, protection, etc.). I know a lot of **** hunters who have unregistered hounds that could beat out some of the best registered hounds but can't because they have outcrossed to other breeds to produce better pups.
 

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I believe that if you want a show dog that works you have to breed for the working aspects first. I firmly believe in form follows function. But you have to also look at the big time show rings and differences in show dogs and working dogs. Look at Labs and Collies for example. Show Labs and Collies are larger and not as athletic looking than the field Labs and Collies. And to be honest those field Labs and Collies tend to not do as well in the show ring from what I've seen because show people like the larger looking dogs.
 

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Outcrossings were already done in the past. There is no need for anymore :(
That's not true. Outcrossing is necessary for many breeds and even species. Many good responsible breeders use outcrossing in their programs.

An honest (read: responsible) breeder doesn't paint these crosses as ABs. Lots of people are quite honest about the blood in the dogs on their leashes.

I'm considering adding a cross to my dog, you will NEVER hear me call that dog an AB - he is what he is, and ABxAPBT.
Don't many breeders breed back to the AB to get the "pure" factor again?
 

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It's more complicated than simple physical ability/looks - you have to consider temperament as well as what you are wanting to accomplish with the breeding. Sure you could through some really good looking ABs and Boxers together and make some nice looking pups but what good would that do if they didn't have the correct temperament or serve the purpose of what you are trying to accomplish?
 
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