Bulldog Breeds Forums banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I am so anti registry lol

I used to have working terriers and we used the JRTCC to register the working dogs, this particular registry holds more merit with working titles then they do with conformation, they also allow outside blood as long as the dog can compete and earl working titles...a "champion" in the JRTCC is a dog who can earn working titles.

In fact you can't even register litters from birth, the dogs have to be a certain age to be registered.

So the focus is taken off the paper and on to the dogs working ability/health/temperament.

I wish we had a registry like this for bulldogges, and all breeds for that matter. It needs to be less a business and more about the people who are in there every day getting their hands dirty with the dogs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
You can't find something if its not there.

Can you breed the pug into a protection dog by only using AKC or CKC pugs? probably not. Can you breed the pug back to it was in the 1600's by only using papered dogs.

Not comparing the pug to the AB but you can't get blood from a turnip and you can't selectively breed something into a breed that isn't already there, and even if you could think of all the puppies that would be produced trying to slowly raise a temperament trait in a breed instead of just doing an outcross to obtain the same characteristics.

I have no issue with outcrossing as long as you are doing it to improve or maintain health/temperament/structure.

i would buy a GSP/weim mix if it was what I was looking for in a working dog, why the hell not? if the cross and pedigree brought something to the table that was an advantage then there is nothing wrong with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
But would you paper it as either one in order to compete? If for some reason it turned out to be a great bird dog? Sure it might turn out to be better than either breed. Then what? You created a really good working mutt. Nothing wrong with that unless you claim it to be one of the two breeds IMO.

And yes I really am enjoying this discussion. Thanks again for the input!

I don't nor will I ever work with papered dogs so I have always been out of the loop in that regard, and there is never a lack of competitions or trials for my dogs, even when I had working terriers.

you find a way around it without feeding the registries that suck money from the sport.

So I take my astounding working mutt and breed it to another astounding working mutt. This is generally how real working dogs are produced, i am not talking about sport dogs I am talking about hog hunting dogs, cattle dogs, flock guardians... dogs who generally really do work for their supper.

The term "pure" bred dog is only about 100 years old, when you consider how long the domestic dog has been around its really a small fraction of time. A thousand years ago nobody cared if the dog had a piece of paper, if the dog was a pure bred or not, if the dog did what it was supposed to do then great that is all that mattered.... and when it stopped mattering this is when a lot of the great working breeds went to shit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
A working dog is a beautiful thing and proves it's worth based solely on it's work. Why not up the ante? Why not have a working dog that conforms to a set standard? One that works well within the rules?
Because it simply does not work.

I took this quote form the JRTCA, although not a bulldog registry they are the best working dog registry in the world IMO.

The Real Jack Russell Terrier may be any height between 10" and 15" (at the shoulder), it may vary in coats, markings, type, and for sure personality… they are ALL real Jack Russell Terriers. There is no "ideal" …. the "ideal" is what suits their owner for what they want/need to do with their terrier. That is the uniqueness of this diverse terrier. The diversity within the JRTCA breed standard is what makes the Jack Russell Terrier suitable for a variety of working and performance abilities - in contrast with the narrow, cosmetic breed standards of many show breeds.

Jack Russell Terrier: JRTCA: The Real Jack Russell Terrier
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Can I ask you guys your opinions on why it doesn't work?

I've owned and have seen several breeds of bird dogs that were "purebred" that could work and show. What are your thoughts on why it's different when it comes to Bulldogs? Or as Sarah pointed out, the JRT?
Again defining purebred, JRTCA dogs are purebred but the standard is lose to allow them to keep their working ability and introduce new blood.

It doesn't work where the standard is slim, a good example being the AKC or CKC fox terrier of today and the JRTCA JRT, these dogs come from the exact same foundation dogs........ release a JRTCA dog and an AKC fox terrier and see who goes to ground the hardest? I guarantee I know your answer. This proves it doesn't work, start with one line and breed one for conformation and one for work and you end up with two totally different dogs/breeds in 10 or 20 years. You can even look at the change in the parsons russell terrier which comes from the same exact stock as the JRTCA jack russell's and since the late 1990's to today there is already a significant change in the breed.

Breed for both and you end up with a midline of both, a decent working dog who conforms decently, but you will never be at the top and this is the reason many breeders pick one or the other, its extremely difficult to be successful in both.

Just because a dog CAN work and show doesn't mean its good at both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I believe that if you want a show dog that works you have to breed for the working aspects first. I firmly believe in form follows function. But you have to also look at the big time show rings and differences in show dogs and working dogs. Look at Labs and Collies for example. Show Labs and Collies are larger and not as athletic looking than the field Labs and Collies. And to be honest those field Labs and Collies tend to not do as well in the show ring from what I've seen because show people like the larger looking dogs.

Look at a breed like the husky...... the show standard calls for a coat that makes the dogs incapable of working, its to hot for them to work with a show coat. So sometimes (and most of the time) in the end the show standards totally go against the working standards.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top