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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i am about to breed my bully last year when she came on heat i bred her but she did not catch. i was told to mate her on the 13TH and 15TH day which we did can anyone tell me if this is right as i am not sure your help in this matter would be most appreciated
 

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Maybe you should read this.............

Are you willing to risk the life of your bitch.If so, you shouldn't own a dog!!!
Took this from another post as I felt it needed to be posted here!!!


Let's think about this for a minute. So you want to breed your female. You know what to expect if everything goes right. Your little girl will present you with little bundles of joy. She will lovingly nurse them and care for them until they are old enough to be weaned.

You and your family will find great joy in watching and playing with these little dolls, and then when the time is right they will all (or maybe you keep just one) go off to special homes to live out their lives as cherished
companions. But have you given consideration to what if something goes wrong? I have listed here a few of the problems that I myself have personal knowledge of. Everything listed has happened either to me or someone I know.

These are not isolated incidents. I'm sure others could add miles to my list. Learn by the mistakes of others. Leave the breeding to those who REALLY know what they are doing, have the experience and know what to expect.

What if during the breeding............

1) The stud dog you have chosen is carrying a venereal disease and gives it to your female. She not only doesn't conceive but you have to pay the vet bills to get her infection cleared up and she is now sterile.

2) The stud dog you decided to breed your darling to is not experienced. Once the two dogs are joined tightly in a tie, he decides to chase the neighbors cat out of his yard. He bolts for the cat ripping his penis loose and causing your bitch to hemorrhage from within.

3) Your modest girl decides she doesn't want the attentions of this gigolo mutt chosen for her without her consent. She snaps at him catching her tooth on his loose cheek and rips it open sending blood flying everywhere. He
retaliates by sinking his teeth into her left eye.

4) You leave your dog with the wner of the male dog because the breeding is not going very swiftly. In fact, it's been three hours and nothing is happening. The stud owner leaves the two dogs alone in the backyard. The dogs get out through a tiny hole in the fence and a truck hits your female.

5) You pay the stud fee up front figuring you will make that and more back when the pups sell. The owner of the male guarantees the stud service to work or you can come back again. Well into the gestation time you discover your bitch isn't pregnant and you now must wait another 4 months for her to come back in heat in order to try again. Of course it doesn't work again, so in another 4 months you take your dog to another male and risk loosing another stud fee.

6) You get her bred. Bring her home. She bothers you so you let her out (she is still in heat and still receptive to males). You here a commotion outside there is your girl tied up with the neighborhood mutt. When she whelps there will need to be DNA tests done on the pups.

7) You get her bred. Bring her home. Let her out. (She is still in heat and receptive to other males) but you do not see the neighborhood mutt breed her. The pups are born but look very odd. You call the stud owner he suggests
DNA testing (at your expense). You have a litter of mutts!. What do you do about the ones you have already sold?.

Or, knowing she tied with the neighborhood mutt you decide to terminate the pregnancy and try again being more careful next time. But a few weeks later your female is very sick because you had her given a miss-mate shot which has caused a hormonal imbalance which in turn caused a uterine infection and now she has Pyometra and needs a complete hysterectomy. All plans of getting a litter
is gone and your females' life is now in danger if she does not have the operation.

What if during the birth..............

1) The puppies are too large for the female. She never goes into labor, the puppies die and she becomes infected by the decaying bodies.

2) The puppies are coming breech and they drown in their own sacks before they can be born.

3) The first puppy is large and breech. When it starts coming your female starts screaming, and before you can stop her she reaches around, grabs the puppy in her teeth and yanks it out killing it instantly.

4) A puppy gets stuck. Neither your female nor you can get it out. You have to race her to the vet. The vet can't get it out either. She has to have an emergency caesarian section of course it is 3:00 am Christmas Day.

5) A puppy is coming out breech and dry (the water sack that protects them has burst). It gets stuck. Mom tries to help it out by clamping her teeth over one of the back legs. The head and shoulders are firmly caught. Mom pulls on the leg, hard, peeling the flesh from the leg and leaving a
wiggling stump of bone.

6) A dead puppy gets stuck in the birth canal, but your female is well into hard labor. She contracts so hard trying to give birth that her uterus ruptures and she bleeds to death on the way to the vet.

What if directly after birth..........

1) The mother has no idea what to do with a puppy and she drops them out and walks away, leaving them in the sack to drown.

2) The mother takes one look at the puppies, decides they are disgusting droppings and tries to smother them in anything she can find to bury them .

3) The mother gets too enthusiastic in her removal of the placenta and umbilical cord, and rips the cord out leaving a gushing hole pulsing blood all over you as you try in vain to stop the bleeding.

4) Or, she pulls on the cords so hard she disembowels the puppies as they are born and you have a box full of tiny, kicking babies with a tangle of guts the size of a walnut hanging from their stomachs. Of course all the babies must be put to sleep.

5) What if because of some Hormone deficiency she turns vicious allowing no-one near her or the babies, who she refuses to nurse, or you have to interfere with.

6) You notice something protruding from her vagina when you let her out to pee. You take her to the vet to discover a prolapsed uterus, which needs to be removed.

What if when you think you are in the clear..................

1) One or more of the puppies inhaled fluid during birth, pneumonia develops and death occurs within 36 hours.

2) what if the mothers milk goes bad. You lose three of your four puppies before you discover what is wrong. You end up bottle feeding the remaining pup every two hours, day and night. After three days the puppy fades from
infection and dies.

3) The puppies develop fading puppy syndrome you lose two. You bottle-feed or tube feed the last remaining baby. It begins to choke and despite your efforts to clear the airway, the pup stiffens and dies in your hands.

4) Your female develops mastitis and her breast ruptures.

5) Your female develops a uterine infection from a retained placenta. Her temperature soars to 105. You race her to the vet, he determines she must be spayed. He does the spay in an attempt to save her life, you pay the hundreds of dollars bill. The infection has gone into her blood stream.
The infected milk kills all the puppies and the bitch dies a day later.

6) All the puppies are fine but following the birth the female develops a hormone imbalance. She becomes a fear biter and anytime anyone tries to touch her she viciously attacks them.

7) Mom and pups seem fine, the puppies are four weeks old and are at their cutest. However, one day one of the puppies disappears. You search everywhere but you can't find it. A few days later another puppy is gone. And another. You can't figure how on earth the puppies are getting out of their safe 4' x 4' puppy pen. Finally there is only one puppy left. The next morning you find the mother chomping contentedly on what is left of the last puppy she herself killed.

What if the new homes are not so happy?.......................

1) You give a puppy to a friend. Their fence blows down so they tie the puppy outside while they go to work. A roving dog comes along and kills the puppy. Your friend calls you up to tell you about the poor little puppy and asks when you are having more puppies.

2) You sell a puppy to an acquaintance. The next time you see them you ask how the puppy is doing. They tell you that it soiled their new carpet so they took it to the pound

3) You sell a puppy to a friend (you give them a good price and payments). They make a couple of tiny payments. Six months later they move to an apartment. They ask you to take it back. You take it back and of course even the tiny payments stop. The dog they returned is so shy, and ill mannered from lack of socialization and training it takes you a year of work providing socializing and training to be able to give it away.

4) You sell a puppy to a wonderful home. They love her like one of the family. At a vet check done by their vet it is determined that the puppy has a heart murmur. (Your vet found nothing when he checked the puppy before it was sold.) They love their puppy and want the best for her. They have an expensive surgery done. The puppy is fine. They sue you for the medical costs. They win, because you did not have a contract stipulating conditions of guarantee and so as breeder you are responsible for the puppy's genetic health.

5) You give a puppy to your mother. she is thrilled. Two years later the puppy starts developing problems. It begins to develop odd symptoms and is suffering. Hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of tests later it is finally discovered that the dog is suffering from a terminal condition that was inherited, possibly from your female since you know nothing about her family lines.

6) One loving home decides your puppy is un-trainable, destructive and wants to return the pup and get a full refund, which you have spent on your vet bills.

7) One loving couple calls you and is very upset because their pup has crippling hip dysplasia and want to know what you are going to do about it. You have spayed your female so a replacement is out of the question, lookslike another big refund.

The Sale:...................

1) You put your ad in the local paper for your pups at the usual price and get only 2 responses and no sales. You cut the pup's price in half and broaden your advertising to 3 other newspapers in which the advertising totals $120.00 a week.

2) You get a few more puppy inquiries from people who ask all about health testing you did before breeding and if the pups are registered with AKC. You tell them your dogs are healthy and it was enough and that you could get the papers. The callers politely thank you and hang up.

3) The pups are now 4 months old and getting bigger, eating a lot and their barking is really beginning to annoy the neighbors who call the police who inform you of the $150.00 noise by-law.

4) Your neighbors also call the humane society who comes out to inspect the care of your dogs. You pass inspection but end up feeling stressed and harassed.

5) You finally decide to give the rest of the litter away but still have to pay the $1200.00 advertising bill and the $600.00 vet bill.

So you gotta ask yourself: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, "breeder?"."
 

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Or.......from personal experience...............

You get so attached to the pups, all those people who call to buy them, you turn away because you dont think ANYBODY is a good enough owner at that point.

OR..you have problems with the delivery, the maiden bitch has no clue what to do and doesnt rip the bag off fast enough and you end up with a dog that has severe nuerological problems and by the time you notice it is too late. The pup has grown on you, and the problems are severe enough you cannot sell it. You dont have the heart to put it down.

AND....when the litter has all their teeth somehow by 2 weeks old and are making mom bleed at nursing time, so you have got to blend mush for weeks and feed them around the clock so they survive, spend tons of $$ on milk supplements.

AND....the shoys-$275 dollars for sirst shotsm if you havent sold any by now, you got 3 more weeks until you pay that price again for more shots.

STILL....no buyers good enough............................
STILL....praying your CP dog somehow miraculously recovers...............................
Still not wanting to let a one go.
Mom is drained of her very life, about 25lbs underweight and now you are worried for her life. Shes not cleaning after them anymore, and they really stink.

Just a word from a recent-first breeding, which will never happen again.

Trust me dude(ette?) I was THE BIGGEST avocate for breeding my Dixie, had been for nearly 2 years, but now-hell, shell be spayed in a few weeks. Never again.
 

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Steph, I'm sorry that's what it took for you to learn about breeding. A very hard lesson, indeed. I'm sorry it happened that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i can understand what your saying and i am a little apprehensive about it all but i am sure everybody who has bred a bitch on this site did not no everything about it when they first did it. i take on board what you say and yes our bitch is like the baby of the family and i would not want anything to happen to her but i would like her to have a litter of pups.this is the second time i have bred her but like i said she did not catch and did not come back on heat for 10 months, so maybe i was doing something wrong even though i have read up on the breeding of the breed,you have to start at the beginning and fingers crossed and a lot of hard work get it right
 

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In general, if you got your bitch from a responsible breeder and THAT breeder felt that she was "breeding" quality (using whatever testing methods your breeder is using to determine this), then you should have a built-in mentor to go through the breeding process.

Most of us here on this board do not feel that breeding an untested (again, there are many tests/criteria) bitch or dog does nothing to improve the breed and should be avoided.

Also, you didn't say, but what breed IS your "bully" - that term covers a lot of ground!
 

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be careful

If you have a pit bull, be it am staff or apbt, dont breed the dog, it doesnt make them a better pet or any rummor you have heard. If you want another baby just like yours look on the internet for rescue pit bulls, their are thousands. The only breed I would even thinking about breeding is American Bulldogs. Pay the money for a well known stud that is without a doubt full blooded AB and ALSO please please make sure the stud, and your female have never had any imbreeding. Imbreeding yeilds beautifull dogs with countless medical problems.
 

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why yes, yes it is

Why do you think imbreeding is illegal for humans? Dogs and humans are different species but the procedure in which chromozones mix and make up a pup are the same for babies.

Imbreeding is wrong and never a good idea, if you sit there and post about how breeding is wrong unless you are blah blah blah, and then suggest imbreeding is fine. you are being hipocrytical Just because your dog is fine doesnt mean they didnt have pups come out with 2 legs that didnt make it. Also just because your dog is ok for now, doesnt mean its always goin to be good down the road, and if it is, then lucky you. However one of the main reasons AB's are so hip problem prone is because of imbreeding.
 

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I dont think you know what you r talking about
Inbreeding doubles up on the good but also the BAD
you need to know your lineage,pedigree,parents very well to do a successful inbreeding. (brtoher x sister)
You should stay within your line a bit and keep consistancy but...that is for responable knowledgeable breeders
 

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No, obviously he doesnt know what he is talking about!
 

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Tia said:
I dont think you know what you r talking about
Inbreeding doubles up on the good but also the BAD
you need to know your lineage,pedigree,parents very well to do a successful inbreeding. (brtoher x sister)
You should stay within your line a bit and keep consistancy but...that is for responable knowledgeable breeders

Yes i do, obviously you dont. You have no clue about genetics so this conversations is pointless.
Having seen the effects on humans (anywhere in the appalachian mountains) and also having seen it in dogs. Two dogs from the same line, great breeders. W never had a problem until the mistake, and it was huge, 5 of the puppies didnt make it out of the 9 due to just not surviving and missing limbs.
 

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bigut64 said:
Tia said:
I dont think you know what you r talking about
Inbreeding doubles up on the good but also the BAD
you need to know your lineage,pedigree,parents very well to do a successful inbreeding. (brtoher x sister)
You should stay within your line a bit and keep consistancy but...that is for responable knowledgeable breeders

Yes i do, obviously you dont. You have no clue about genetics so this conversations is pointless.
Having seen the effects on humans (anywhere in the appalachian mountains) and also having seen it in dogs. Two dogs from the same line, great breeders. W never had a problem until the mistake, and it was huge, 5 of the puppies didnt make it out of the 9 due to just not surviving and missing limbs.
Then obviously you started w/ two "apalachian mountain corn fed and hand spanked twisted retarded mutts" and not followed responsible guidelines by only line breeding to save and preserve quality traits, and breed out the recessive not so good genes. What'd ya breed?Sister and borther???

You have come to the wrong board to challenge ANYONE on genetics son, and before you reply to this, read up and do alittle research because YOU are the one stating things as facts and they are not. Dang, you could really cause hardship if someone took your INaccurate wisdom to heart.

Are you from the mountains too???Human is totally different.
 

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How do you think the purebreeds we have today came to be? Selective inbreeding. Otherwise, there would be no "pure" breed. Just a bunch of mutts that maybe a handfull out of a thousand look the same. Selective inbreeding has made the dogs we know today.
 

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I was always under the understanding that dogs have more chromosomes than humans do. And that's why you can inbreed dogs but not humans. If you inbreed to much you will get some pretty sick dogs, but If it wasn't for inbreeding there would be no breeds today.
 

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bigut64.

I am in no way saying inbreeding should be taken lightly (no breeding should imo) but what you are saying does not make sense. Alot of people have had success doing this. The key is KNOWING what is in the lines, good and bad and being willing to cull. Also, people who inbreed responsibly, don't advertise the pups to the general public to pet homes. They keep them around on their yard, or the yards of people close to them so they can be evauluated. Inbreeding is a quick way to bring the good and bad qualities of a line to the surface. Inbreeding does not always cause unhealthy dogs! Inbreeding does not create anything that wasn't already there!

Maybe you should read some of these articles. Maybe it will open your eyes a bit.

http://www.kiwsabs.com/articles/articles_tight.htm

http://www.sloughi-international.com/linebreeding.htm

http://www.daystardanes.com/phenotype.htm

http://omalmalamutes.com/omal/breedingmethods.asp

http://www.tenset.co.uk/fspeed/
 
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