[BamBam's Dad]

I was venting in another thread about the AKC and their tendancy to influcence the traits that dogs are bred for. It all started by talking about Rufus the Bull Terrier who has done quite well for himself in all of the big dog shows. I think he is a sub-standard example of the breed. His head is shaped oddly (like an egg) and that seemed to be the deciding factor in the judging. I hope they don't start breeding soley for that weird head shape. I can think of a few breeds who have been ruined by breeders looking to make dogs have whatever trait the judges seem to like in the most exaggerated way possible. This is because they seem to focus on a specific trait for every breed and it means more than everything else. Rotweilers have been bred to be so big that they are having all kinds of joint problems now for example. I wont write a book here, I'm sure you can think of others.

 

[PitBullRoyalty]

Oh, I agree about Rufus!
I met him at last Westminster and he is just odd looking. His head is too big for his body.
But you know, it's usually about who you know at those types of events.
I witnessed this port water dog win best of breed, he was the least impressive of them!

 

[PaulaEdwina]

I knew a woman who bred German Shorthair Pointers. They were all proved in field trials but she had a great deal of disdain for AKC conformation because she felt they encouraged narrow chests that would not be suitable for the task. We were all taken by surprise when last year (or year before) a GSP was BIS. I think conformation ridgebacks are very effeminate, but that's JMO I know nothing about conformation.

Paula

 

[Beetle]

Yeah, Rufus is a prime example of exaggerating a single trait. He's certainly not the best example of a bull terrier I've seen. That's so true what you said in the other post about the AKC judging process causing breeders to breed for a single trait. They don't see an issue with causing a breeds standard to change over time. Isn't this partially respoinsible for how the EB came to change so much through the years to the current standard?

Tala is FCI registered, and I decided not to even transfer her to AKC. What's the point, I'm never going to show her or breed her anyway. As far as I know, the FCI has a stricter and more traditional standard for many breeds than the AKC. Less variation, and more traditional morphology. JMO

 

[BamBam's Dad]

Yeah, you know something is wrong when a dog has to be born by cesarean section.

 

[PitBullRoyalty]

Yeah, you know something is wrong when a dog has to be born by cesarean section.

Poms do and other toy dogs, they're trying to make them so small that they have no choice.

BTW, Tala is a gorgeous BT. I think she's higher show quality than Rufus.

 

[Miakoda]

LOL. The AKC has ruined every breed. They breed solely for looks foregoing ANY working ability working breeds should have. As for the pet quality dogs, well, just look at the EB........................

 

[Kismet]

Hmm... Breeds ruined by the AKC/CKC

German Shepherd
English Bulldog
Bullmastiff
English Mastiff
Neapolitan Mastiff
Shar Pei
Rottweiler
Pug

and just about every other working breed out there.

Nevermind, it would be shorter to make a list of the one's they haven't screwed up

Well done AKC :thefinger:

 

[BamBam's Dad]

Ha Ha,
Irish Setters used to be considered intelligent. Lets not forget the whole anger thing that St. Bernards have now. I really hope that they don't get their meathooks on AB's.

 

[maryserratos]

I want to see a pic of this Rufus dog.

ETA: I found him. I do think Tala is a prettier dog than this. I just didn't see anything that jumped out at me. Maybe his head being wider, making his eyes look too close together?

OK, dumb question... Do their faces remind you guys of a horse? I have never been around one, but that is what I think of when I see them. I also imagine they feel the same???

 

[HausMommy]

Rufus:

 

[Kismet]

Rufus:

Fat, bizzare looking, and not an ounce of muscle anywhere on him. I mean, yeah he's cute, but not functional or practical. The original bull terriers had a very slight roman nose. A big stretch from that deformed creature. I love BT's and it's sad what is being done to the breed.

 

[maryserratos]

Rufus:

Fat, bizzare looking, and not an ounce of muscle anywhere on him. I mean, yeah he's cute, but not functional or practical. The original bull terriers had a very slight roman nose. A big stretch from that deformed creature. I love BT's and it's sad what is being done to the breed.

Where did their noses even come from? **I think I need to do a little of my own research on these dogs. LOL**

 

[Miakoda]

The AKC likes the dogs fat....then they go on to talk about how "muscular" it is. The AmStaffs are complete rhinos as well. The only lean dog I've seen recently was the Pharoah Hound.

 

[HausMommy]

I'm totally unimpressed with the AKC. It's to the point where people say, "Well my dog is AKC registered, blah blah." And I reply with, "I'm sorry." They have managed to ruin the breed standard of most of the working, sporting and herding breeds. And like Miakoda said, most of the dogs are not muscular, but fat.

 

[Beetle]

I want to see a pic of this Rufus dog.

ETA: I found him. I do think Tala is a prettier dog than this. I just didn't see anything that jumped out at me. Maybe his head being wider, making his eyes look too close together?

OK, dumb question... Do their faces remind you guys of a horse? I have never been around one, but that is what I think of when I see them. I also imagine they feel the same???

Thank you. Rufus's head shape is why he won, and unfortunately, his head is not even shaped like a bull terrier's head should be. His head is beyond egg shaped, and almost oval. My bf and I were talking about him a while ago, and we came to the conclusion that he has apple cheeks that make his head rounder, which has not been a defining characteristic in the breed. He is a bit tubby too, but he's also 6 years old, I think. They really fill out in the middle at that age.

For comparison, here's another colored bull terrier that I think is a better representation of the breed.

Here's one I just like.

 

[solidstaffs]

Personally i think he is a nice looking dog, thats all i'm going to say because regardless of what any of you think about the breed standard and what certain registry bodies are doing to breeds, to post pictures of someones PET and slag it off is bang out of order in my opinion.

I'm gueesing that not one of you would like me to copy a picture of your dog post it on another forum for everyone to slag.

Thats just my opinion, and i dont wish to offend anyone but i think it's wrong !!

 

[Beetle]

Personally i think he is a nice looking dog, thats all i'm going to say because regardless of what any of you think about the breed standard and what certain registry bodies are doing to breeds, to post pictures of someones PET and slag it off is bang out of order in my opinion.

I'm gueesing that not one of you would like me to copy a picture of your dog post it on another forum for everyone to slag.

Thats just my opinion, and i dont wish to offend anyone but i think it's wrong !!

Well, I never entered my dog into a show to be judged by others. If I did, then I guess I would expect people to form opinions about my dog, be it positive or negative. Actually, I really wouldn't care at all if anyone wants to critique Tala. She's not perfect, and it doesn't bother me at all. I'm not knocking Rufus as a dog. I'm sure he's a wonderful dog, but he's not the best example of a bull terrier. The point is that when dogs like Rufus win national championships, people start wanting those traits in their dogs. In the case of Rufus and many others, he deviates far too much from the norm. I am a strong believer in preservation. I'd like to see the breed remain preserved as much as possible. I think it's unfortunate that Rufus won because it will only aid in modifying the breed over time.

 

[solidstaffs]

Personally i think he is a nice looking dog, thats all i'm going to say because regardless of what any of you think about the breed standard and what certain registry bodies are doing to breeds, to post pictures of someones PET and slag it off is bang out of order in my opinion.

I'm gueesing that not one of you would like me to copy a picture of your dog post it on another forum for everyone to slag.

Thats just my opinion, and i dont wish to offend anyone but i think it's wrong !!

Well, I never entered my dog into a show to be judged by others. If I did, then I guess I would expect people to form opinions about my dog, be it positive or negative. Actually, I really wouldn't care at all if anyone wants to critique Tala. She's not perfect, and it doesn't bother me at all. I'm not knocking Rufus as a dog. I'm sure he's a wonderful dog, but he's not the best example of a bull terrier. The point is that when dogs like Rufus win national championships, people start wanting those traits in their dogs. In the case of Rufus and many others, he deviates far too much from the norm. I am a strong believer in preservation. I'd like to see the breed remain preserved as much as possible.

I understand what you and everyone else is saying, BUT i dont think that using pictures of someones PET is the way to make your point. You can debate and explain what you mean without the need to pick holes in someones pet, regardless of whether or not he is a "show" dog. When you enter your dog into a show you pay your money for a "judges" opinion of your dog, not for pictures to be posted on forums and people to pick holes (IMHO)

Obviously nobody else sees a problem in it, so i'll say no more :wink:

 

[Beetle]

Personally i think he is a nice looking dog, thats all i'm going to say because regardless of what any of you think about the breed standard and what certain registry bodies are doing to breeds, to post pictures of someones PET and slag it off is bang out of order in my opinion.

I'm gueesing that not one of you would like me to copy a picture of your dog post it on another forum for everyone to slag.

Thats just my opinion, and i dont wish to offend anyone but i think it's wrong !!

Well, I never entered my dog into a show to be judged by others. If I did, then I guess I would expect people to form opinions about my dog, be it positive or negative. Actually, I really wouldn't care at all if anyone wants to critique Tala. She's not perfect, and it doesn't bother me at all. I'm not knocking Rufus as a dog. I'm sure he's a wonderful dog, but he's not the best example of a bull terrier. The point is that when dogs like Rufus win national championships, people start wanting those traits in their dogs. In the case of Rufus and many others, he deviates far too much from the norm. I am a strong believer in preservation. I'd like to see the breed remain preserved as much as possible.

I understand what you and everyone else is saying, BUT i dont think that using pictures of someones PET is the way to make your point. You can debate and explain what you mean without the need to pick holes in someones pet, regardless of whether or not he is a "show" dog. When you enter your dog into a show you pay your money for a "judges" opinion of your dog, not for pictures to be posted on forums and people to pick holes (IMHO)

Obviously nobody else sees a problem in it, so i'll say no more :wink:

It's easier to visualize with photos than trying to describe it, that's all. No harm intended.