[Lisa]

And really, she has had no socialization. The only time she's out in public is at the vet's office. I'm always reading in here that they don't NEED socialization, they only need you. I don't know... I just feel like such a huge failure.

I am of the belief that a STRONG dog does not need alot of socialiaztion.....their genetics is all they need in order to be a tempermentally superior animal.

I am of the belief that through much conditioning and exposure i.e. "socialization" a dog mediocre in temperament, can be made stronger.

I am of the belief that a weak dog, no matter how much help (conditioning, exposure, socialiation) will never be a strong dog...perhaps with ALOT of work, mediocre at best, but even that is a stretch...you can only do what is within the paramaters of the dogs genetics.

One thing I would not do is force Nala to greet strangers. That could actually make her worse. If you are determined to try and help her you could try motivational style obeidence (hand feeding their meals during ob sessions works great). You can do this while in the presence of people but do not force her to meet them.

 

[Lisa]

agree with this one - a strong dog is a strong dog and a timid dog, usually stays a timid dog - even with alot of work.

You mention that you do not allow her around your son, is there any particular reason for this? I disagree with the people who say socialising won't do anything. I believe that considering your dog hasn't been around the people she will have to deal with every day - she is in dire need of more socialisation that she's getting.

Hmmm..I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something but it seems like this is a bit of a contradiction.

:?

I do not blame the owner of this dog for keeping it away from her son. Even if the dog hasn't actually been aggressive it is showing alot of FEAR (backing up and submissive urinating). Fearful dogs are always the most likely to bite. Why take the chance?

 

[Lisa]

agree with this one - a strong dog is a strong dog and a timid dog, usually stays a timid dog - even with alot of work.

You mention that you do not allow her around your son, is there any particular reason for this? I disagree with the people who say socialising won't do anything. I believe that considering your dog hasn't been around the people she will have to deal with every day - she is in dire need of more socialisation that she's getting.

Hmmm..I don't understand. Maybe I am missing something but it seems like this is a bit of a contradiction.

:?

I do not blame the owner of this dog for keeping it away from her son. Even if the dog hasn't actually been aggressive it is showing alot of FEAR (backing up and submissive urinating). Fearful dogs are always the most likely to bite. Why take the chance?

How is this a contradiction? Do you just go around trying to upset people?

I won't even bother replying to your question - although you obviously are missing something.

You are right, I am obivously missing something if I do not understand. Why can you not explain to me?

You say in one paragraph that even with alot of work, that a timid dog will stay timid.....

In another paragraph you say she is in dire need of socializaing. So, if you believe if a timid dog will stay timid no matter what is done, how do you feel socializing will help? How do you feel that is "upseting people"? All I asked was for an explanation to your reasoning.

 

[Lisa]

When they are asleep, I am awake.

So why not wake them up for the training lessons?

 

[Lisa]

I don't understand how someone who has time to make an average of 12 posts per day on this forum can honestly say they don't have time to do basic ob training with their dogs. 15 minutes per dog, per day is all it takes!

 

[Lisa]

As far as confidance goes, the word "building" shouldnt be in the same sentence they do not go together, confidence is in them , born with it, if it isnt there will never be

Well said, Tia!! If you have to build it, it was never there in the first place and never will be. You can mask and condition fearful responses until the cows come home..they will always be there and will always rear their ugly heads at some point in time...hopefully not in a way that harms someone.

 

[Lisa]

Nala's issues aren't training issues they are temperment issues. From what I have read, Koa's issures ARE training issues.

I would not personally own a fearful dog but since you have decided to take on the responsibility I think that what Meagan has told you is excellent advice.

Nala does not need to have personal contact with people. Take her out but teach her to ignore her surroundings and focus on you. Having people pet her and give her treats will probably just make her worse. If she freaks out when you are out somewhere with her IGNORE the behaviour totally and re focus her by giving her a command she knows...make sure you always have her food in your pocket..feed her as many of her meals as you can this way...this will only increase her focus on you. All toys come through you also and can be used during her training as a means of reward and distraction. In the beginning you can reward her for something as simple as focus on you..later once she gets that you can start with the basic commands..sit, down, etc.

How old is Nala? Once she is old enough to handle a correction and KNOWS a command and she still choses to ignore it, then you correct her for disobeying the command, not for the fit she is throwing. Every time she freaks out do this...redirect her attention to a command. See what I mean? That way she is being corrected, but not for the fit...and in the meantime her mind is put somehwere else and she learns that you, as her owner, can be alot more scary when she choses not to listen, than anyone or anything out there.

 

[Lisa]

To all those who say a timid dog is dangerous and shouldn't be worked on - you obviously don't have the patience or the know -how. This is like saying that confidence can never be built in a human being. Ridiculous. I imagine most people saying this have read it and/or haven't worked with dogs of this type - or have failed with their efforts.

You make it sound like not wanting to work with such an animal is a bad thing. Have you ever stopped to think that some people have standards? Some people actually want a dog that has confidence right out of the box and doesn't need all that "help". It doesn't mean they don't have the patience or the know how. It just means they appreciate a good dog and will not settle for a crapper in the first place. What is so wrong with that? There are lots of nice dogs out there with good temperaments who are stable who don't need a ton of conditioning in order to function well in society. If someone choses to have the bar raised high that is there pergoative and that is what this world needs!. It is also the perogative of people to want to work with such weak animals that you speak of but when that dog isa potential danger to a human, that must be considered also. Many times they can't be fixed and the only solution is to have the dog PTS.

I beleive that a big reason there are so many temperamentally unsound dogs out there in the first place is because of this mindset. "With some work we can fix it" or "the dog just needs more socializing"..blah blah blah. Many breeders use these things as excuses to breed weak dogs, rather than looking at the genetic aspect of the dog. Good dogs dont need that help and that is the differnece between a good dog and a weak one.

 

[Lisa]

Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

Yes, I have and I would never consider using it.