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So don't give her the treat until she sits nicely for a few seconds, I know what you mean, it seems like its killing htem just to sit there for one second. But that is another exercise you have to do with her. Teach her patience. Since she is food motivated, that makes your job a million times easier!! Carry your treats around with you, while you are doing laundry or something and get her to look at you at weird times. Do this is only with Nala, have your other two put away when ever you are doing training.
 

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Nala's issues aren't training issues they are temperment issues. From what I have read, Koa's issures ARE training issues.

I would not personally own a fearful dog but since you have decided to take on the responsibility I think that what Meagan has told you is excellent advice.

Nala does not need to have personal contact with people. Take her out but teach her to ignore her surroundings and focus on you. Having people pet her and give her treats will probably just make her worse. If she freaks out when you are out somewhere with her IGNORE the behaviour totally and re focus her by giving her a command she knows...make sure you always have her food in your pocket..feed her as many of her meals as you can this way...this will only increase her focus on you. All toys come through you also and can be used during her training as a means of reward and distraction. In the beginning you can reward her for something as simple as focus on you..later once she gets that you can start with the basic commands..sit, down, etc.

How old is Nala? Once she is old enough to handle a correction and KNOWS a command and she still choses to ignore it, then you correct her for disobeying the command, not for the fit she is throwing. Every time she freaks out do this...redirect her attention to a command. See what I mean? That way she is being corrected, but not for the fit...and in the meantime her mind is put somehwere else and she learns that you, as her owner, can be alot more scary when she choses not to listen, than anyone or anything out there.
 

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LuvaBULL said:
Question: What if I walk her down the street, and she completely freaks out over the cars or something? Should I pick her up? Or just stop in my tracks and wait till she's calm? Should I tell her it's okay, or just be firm and walk the other way?

Ok, instead of telling me how to train Nala, let's talk about how to train ME! I am probably 90% of the problem here. Maybe it's my body language, or my voice, or my tone. Maybe I'm too soft. But I'm afraid if I am too firm, she will be more afraid of me!
I wouldnt walk her toward the cars too much movement and if someone honks she may really freak out. If the other way is more quiet try that way. Even if its a block or two. Start out slow and work your way up to a the whole street if you have to. And...I forgot to make it clear..DONT let someone try to pet her or talk to her just yet. Let her get use to seeing people other than you first. It might take some time before she feels comfortable with others touching her. I would praise her while she's walking. If you pick her up while she's fearful it will make her think its what she should do.

When you approach her is it fast, direct eye contact, ever frustrated, mad, upset? Maybe you could try sitting on the floor and call her over to you. I know when I use to work at this dog daycare we had a problem with one of the dogs. She wouldnt come inside it was cold out and you couldnt even get close to her or she'd bite. And hated being leashed and would pee all over the place. So I went outside with a leash sat on the wall dropped my head down like I was reading a magazine in my lap and kind of turned my body like back was toward her. And within a minute she came over. I didnt say anything to her. I let her have a a couple minutes to feel me out. Then I put the leash on her calmly told her good girl and we went in. So I do think you could change Nala but it will take some time. Just have to be patient and consistent.
 

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Bremner53 said:
If you're saying I only need 15 min/day to cure Nala's WEAK NERVES, Hallelujah! I am ALL EARS. I would love to fix her that easily, and if you think it can be done with such little effort,
You will not be able to fix her weak nerves, EVER! It just won't happen. She will always be an unstable dog. You can train her to hide it a little bit, which will only take a few minutes a day. Dogs are smart, and have short attention spans, you dont' need an hour a day to work with them.
[/quote]

You won't completely fix a dogs nerves - BUT I disagree that this means she will always be an unstable dog.

If you get some expert help, preferably with someone who knows the breed - then I have seen timid pups become beautiful, predictable, stable dogs - please note, this does take alot of work and expertise. Don't think it will be 15 minutes, forget the word EASY or LITTLE EFFORT.

To all those who say a timid dog is dangerous and shouldn't be worked on - you obviously don't have the patience or the know -how. This is like saying that confidence can never be built in a human being. Ridiculous. I imagine most people saying this have read it and/or haven't worked with dogs of this type - or have failed with their efforts.

Pitbull's are a strong breed deep down, there is a confidence that can definately be tapped into.

My only worry in this case, knowing the work that is involved - I honestly don't think you have the time. This is not a bash, just my opion from what I've read.
 

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To all those who say a timid dog is dangerous and shouldn't be worked on - you obviously don't have the patience or the know -how. This is like saying that confidence can never be built in a human being. Ridiculous. I imagine most people saying this have read it and/or haven't worked with dogs of this type - or have failed with their efforts.
You make it sound like not wanting to work with such an animal is a bad thing. Have you ever stopped to think that some people have standards? Some people actually want a dog that has confidence right out of the box and doesn't need all that "help". It doesn't mean they don't have the patience or the know how. It just means they appreciate a good dog and will not settle for a crapper in the first place. What is so wrong with that? There are lots of nice dogs out there with good temperaments who are stable who don't need a ton of conditioning in order to function well in society. If someone choses to have the bar raised high that is there pergoative and that is what this world needs!. It is also the perogative of people to want to work with such weak animals that you speak of but when that dog isa potential danger to a human, that must be considered also. Many times they can't be fixed and the only solution is to have the dog PTS.

I beleive that a big reason there are so many temperamentally unsound dogs out there in the first place is because of this mindset. "With some work we can fix it" or "the dog just needs more socializing"..blah blah blah. Many breeders use these things as excuses to breed weak dogs, rather than looking at the genetic aspect of the dog. Good dogs dont need that help and that is the differnece between a good dog and a weak one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Lisa, you asked how old Nala is... she will be 7 mos old on the 6th.

I'm already seeing some improvements in her.. just baby steps. She isn't running away from me so much. But she still tucks her tail quite a bit. Not all the way under, if that makes sense.. but she holds the proximal end close to her body, if you can picture what I'm saying. And the peeing has to stop. She jumped on my son's BRAND NEW mattress today and dribbled out of excitement.. Oh that makes me so angry because her urine is extremely strong-smelling.

OMG... I just noticed something. I can't remember the last time I saw Nala take a drink of water. Maybe that's why her pee stinks so bad... or what if she has a UTI? Maybe that's why she's peeing all the time. I know she is a submissive urinator, but maybe she has some medical issues to top it off.

Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
 

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LuvaBULL said:
Lisa, you asked how old Nala is... she will be 7 mos old on the 6th.

I'm already seeing some improvements in her.. just baby steps. She isn't running away from me so much. But she still tucks her tail quite a bit. Not all the way under, if that makes sense.. but she holds the proximal end close to her body, if you can picture what I'm saying. And the peeing has to stop. She jumped on my son's BRAND NEW mattress today and dribbled out of excitement.. Oh that makes me so angry because her urine is extremely strong-smelling.

OMG... I just noticed something. I can't remember the last time I saw Nala take a drink of water. Maybe that's why her pee stinks so bad... or what if she has a UTI? Maybe that's why she's peeing all the time. I know she is a submissive urinator, but maybe she has some medical issues to top it off.

Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
Submissive urination only gets better with time and confidence. You'll have to manage having a pisser by doing things like not letting her jump up on your son's new mattress. Getting mad at her for doing something you know she does and can't help is unreasonable.

I got a ridgeback returned to rescue for being nutty and sensitive and her owners put her on chlomicalm - anti-anxiety drug. When I got her I was supposed to foster her until we had a behaviorist re-evaluate her adoptability. She settled right in to my household. She's soft, but she's not crazy and she is not on chlomicalm. so I kept her. She was not in the right environment with those people so I guess they drugged her to fit. She isn't drugged at my house.

Here's my thing; granted there are probably some dogs out there who need chlomicalm, if you consider putting this puppy on an anti-anxiety drug you need to rehome this dog. You cannot drug this dog into your world view. It is not fair to the dog.

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
Oh no, I don't think she's quite that bad! I was just curious if anyone has heard of such a thing. I never knew they medicated dogs for anxiety. As for jumping on the bed, well that door is usually closed, but I didn't expect to have them indoors at that time. They were all 3 raising hell at the same time. I kid you not, Heaven was stealing the food off my plate, Koa was in the kitchen stealing my casserole off the counter, and Nala was jumping on the bed. OMG, these kids are gonna give me grey hair. :lol: I was trying to let them OUTSIDE to potty, but they saw the sleet and rain, turned around and saw the kitchen door open to the rest of the house, and they ran free. Little stinkers.

I wonder if Nala will feel better when she's not the littlest one. Maybe she feels overwhelmed by 2 bigger dogs? Maybe once she is their size, she will be more confident. ... Or maybe not. :D
 

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LuvaBULL said:
Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
I don't think she will need it. My dog Legend use to have some seperation anixety problems. I do believe I was the cause for it b/c I never left him alone due to he went to work with me, went out with me, etc. So I used some lavender oil(Its suppose to give a calming effect) around his crate just a few drops and started to work with him on the issue. I now don't have a problem with leaving him at home. I refused to put him on medication for it and we got through it! :D
 

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PaulaEdwina said:
LuvaBULL said:
Lisa, you asked how old Nala is... she will be 7 mos old on the 6th.

I'm already seeing some improvements in her.. just baby steps. She isn't running away from me so much. But she still tucks her tail quite a bit. Not all the way under, if that makes sense.. but she holds the proximal end close to her body, if you can picture what I'm saying. And the peeing has to stop. She jumped on my son's BRAND NEW mattress today and dribbled out of excitement.. Oh that makes me so angry because her urine is extremely strong-smelling.

OMG... I just noticed something. I can't remember the last time I saw Nala take a drink of water. Maybe that's why her pee stinks so bad... or what if she has a UTI? Maybe that's why she's peeing all the time. I know she is a submissive urinator, but maybe she has some medical issues to top it off.

Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
Submissive urination only gets better with time and confidence. You'll have to manage having a pisser by doing things like not letting her jump up on your son's new mattress. Getting mad at her for doing something you know she does and can't help is unreasonable.

I got a ridgeback returned to rescue for being nutty and sensitive and her owners put her on chlomicalm - anti-anxiety drug. When I got her I was supposed to foster her until we had a behaviorist re-evaluate her adoptability. She settled right in to my household. She's soft, but she's not crazy and she is not on chlomicalm. so I kept her. She was not in the right environment with those people so I guess they drugged her to fit. She isn't drugged at my house.

Here's my thing; granted there are probably some dogs out there who need chlomicalm, if you consider putting this puppy on an anti-anxiety drug you need to rehome this dog. You cannot drug this dog into your world view. It is not fair to the dog.

Paula
We tried chlomicalm many years ago for a Great Dane/Komondor mix that we had, for severe seperation anxiety. Kuma was only on it a couple of days before we stopped using it. It made him really aggressive. He started lashing out at the other dogs, cats, and us; which he had never done before.

There are a couple of herbal calmers that you can use. Ark Naturals makes one called Happy Traveler. It contains St. Jon's Wort, Kava Kava, Valerian Root, and Chamomile. It is good for stressful times (i.e. fireworks, traveling, storms, etc.), but I don't recommend using it for prolonged periods of time. The one I prefer is made by a Canadian company named Holistic Blend, and is called Herbal Calmer. It is a liquid containing Skullcap, Passion Flower, and Chamomile in a base of cod liver oil. It is a lot safer for frequent use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
No, I honestly don't think she needs it. Nala isn't "anxious" really... She will come right up to me and want kisses and snuggles, wags her tail and is very calm. It's when I approach her, or make direct eye contact and walk toward her that she runs away. She will eventually come to me though. I just want her to come to me every time. She doesn't seem like she's scared all the time, but yet not content either. She isn't a rambunctious, curious puppy. She's more reserved, hesitant, less trusting of others, unsure of herself, timid. For instance, I don't think I've ever heard her bark. She doesn't play like normal puppies. She kind of hides a lot, like under the table, or in her doghouse when she's outside. You can't really medicate this, I don't think. It's just her personality, but I don't know how much of that I can change, and whether or not it will lead to something like fear-biting. I just want my son to be safe, and I don't think I can put a guarantee on ANY dog, much less a fearful one.

I think it all depends on if I am a gambling woman, and when it comes to my son... I'm not. It's just SO hard because it hasn't reached that point, you know? She's not a danger RIGHT NOW. I don't know what to do. I'd like to re-home her, but I don't know if that's possible.
 

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Also, one of my patients and I got to talking, and she was telling me about an anti-anxiety pill for dogs. She said her dog takes it during thunderstorms and he hasn't been afraid of one since. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
Yes, I have and I would never consider using it.
 

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LuvaBULL said:
No, I honestly don't think she needs it. Nala isn't "anxious" really... She will come right up to me and want kisses and snuggles, wags her tail and is very calm. It's when I approach her, or make direct eye contact and walk toward her that she runs away. She will eventually come to me though. I just want her to come to me every time. She doesn't seem like she's scared all the time, but yet not content either. She isn't a rambunctious, curious puppy. She's more reserved, hesitant, less trusting of others, unsure of herself, timid. For instance, I don't think I've ever heard her bark. She doesn't play like normal puppies. She kind of hides a lot, like under the table, or in her doghouse when she's outside. You can't really medicate this, I don't think. It's just her personality, but I don't know how much of that I can change, and whether or not it will lead to something like fear-biting. I just want my son to be safe, and I don't think I can put a guarantee on ANY dog, much less a fearful one.

I think it all depends on if I am a gambling woman, and when it comes to my son... I'm not. It's just SO hard because it hasn't reached that point, you know? She's not a danger RIGHT NOW. I don't know what to do. I'd like to re-home her, but I don't know if that's possible.
Give her up, If you show any signs of anger to this dog, you will take more steps backward. Use your time to find a home that can help Nala, do we not have any foster on here that can help?
 

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Discussion Starter · #114 ·
Nikki, I hope you didn't think when I said that about eye contact and walking toward her that I meant I was angry, I just meant when I try to pick her up, she runs. I don't show anger toward any of my dogs... they might get a firm "get down" or something like that, but I'm not mean to them. Just wanted to clarify!

I don't WANT to re-home Nala. I want to do everything possible to help her. But maybe at this point, the best way to HELP her is to re-home her with someone who can give her attention all day long. ALL my dogs need more attention. Since my son moved with his dad, none of them are getting the attention they need. Like I said before, when my son lived here with me, he and the babysitter were home to play with the dogs and let them out while I worked. Now there is no one. I stop by to let them potty for 5 min when I can, but it's not always possible. They are spending a great deal of time alone.

I am having new issues with Koa too, but I haven't written about that. It's nothing serious, but very distressing to add on top of Nala's problems. And very typical problems for a multi-bully household, nothing I am seeking advice on. I've broken up some minor scuffles, but what if the next one isn't so minor. Heaven and Nala are so submissive to Koa that I don't think it would ever happen, but I'm sure those were also someone's famous last words.

So I have a lot of thinking to do. My heart wants to hold onto these pups forever and give them everything they deserve. But I'm starting to feel that what they deserve, is more than I can give. I want them all to be happy and thriving, and spoiled with long walks and lots of attention. Either I have to arrange for doggie daycare (not sure if my budget will allow for that) or I have to rehome a couple of them. The good news is, my son MIGHT be coming home sooner than we thought, his dad is having problems. I'm just going to think about this for a while, ok? Thank you for all your advice and suggestions! I am taking everything you say to heart and using it to make the best decision possible. You've all been a great help!
 

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I just watched your video, and Heaven is a very clever dog, Koa looks like he's going to be head strong and Nala is so much like Marlee! You have done such a great job with Heaven.

I know you don't want to hear any more advice and you feel you have enough, but I still say you have not got the time to train 2 more dogs. Roxy & I will be training for the rest of my life, my trainer has already told me I must always be ontop of Roxy, she is very dominant and very hi prey drive , my training her is part of me being the boss. Whereas Marlee will probably be out of training in a few mouths. Some dogs you cannot just train in a several mouths and hope that will be it.

One has got to go, then you can didicate your time to just one. Come on look what you have achieved with Heaven you could do the same for Koa or Nala.


Trina, I'm not letting this drop, otherwise we'll see a post in a few months time with a heading I will dread opening. Please think hard now.

Which dog do you feel you have more control over and able to train? not which dog has the prettiest eyes and cutes button kisses nose....
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
I hear you... I am thinking how life would be if I only had Heaven... how much more I could spoil her. How much time I could devote to training her because she really does listen so well. I'd have more money for formal obedience classes, and I know she would excell. I hate to separate her from Koa, but really she's been a loner ever since Nala came along anyway.

Koa's issues are not really issues for a strong, dominant person. They only become issues for an inexperienced handler such as myself. Having a 3 bully household is not easy for any family (though LoveMy3ABs makes it look pretty easy, lol!) ... But it's especially difficult for a single person who is gone a lot. It would kill me to let Koa go, and I'm not saying for certain that I will. Technically Heaven is "mine" and Koa is Kain's. (My son's.) That's "his" dog and he's quite attached. But I'm trying to think of what's best for everyone.
 

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I think once you got one dog in training you follow it threw at home with the other dog. I rarely take Marlee, only to show off what I have taught her at home. Get Koa into training, then Heaven will pick it up too. Plus you get to meet some hunky blokes at training, the dogs are great conversation started. :lol:

So all you got to do now is find a good home for Nala, hopefully one of our foster mum can help you find her a good home, but keep her with you till one is found. Don't feel guilty, look at it as helping Nala, if she had gone somewhere else prior to you, someone that couldn't be bothered to reaserch help, what would her life hold for her.

Be her foster mum, be pleased that you can offer her that :love5:
 

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Roxy said:
I think once you got one dog in training you follow it threw at home with the other dog. I rarely take Marlee, only to show off what I have taught her at home. Get Koa into training, then Heaven will pick it up too. Plus you get to meet some hunky blokes at training, the dogs are great conversation started. :lol:

So all you got to do now is find a good home for Nala, hopefully one of our foster mum can help you find her a good home, but keep her with you till one is found. Don't feel guilty, look at it as helping Nala, if she had gone somewhere else prior to you, someone that couldn't be bothered to reaserch help, what would her life hold for her.

Be her foster mum, be pleased that you can offer her that :love5:
I totally agree. Look into seeing if you can find a trainer that will come to your house, and make sure Kain is there, too, so he can work with "his" dog. Then you can be spending quality time with your son, and your dogs.

What ever you do, don't feel guilty. Remember that Heaven deserves your attention, and you had her first. You'll find Nala a terrific home, and she doesn't have to go anywhere until you find the right fit.
 

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nanniesrock said:
Roxy said:
I think once you got one dog in training you follow it threw at home with the other dog. I rarely take Marlee, only to show off what I have taught her at home. Get Koa into training, then Heaven will pick it up too. Plus you get to meet some hunky blokes at training, the dogs are great conversation started. :lol:

So all you got to do now is find a good home for Nala, hopefully one of our foster mum can help you find her a good home, but keep her with you till one is found. Don't feel guilty, look at it as helping Nala, if she had gone somewhere else prior to you, someone that couldn't be bothered to reaserch help, what would her life hold for her.

Be her foster mum, be pleased that you can offer her that :love5:
I totally agree. Look into seeing if you can find a trainer that will come to your house, and make sure Kain is there, too, so he can work with "his" dog. Then you can be spending quality time with your son, and your dogs.

What ever you do, don't feel guilty. Remember that Heaven deserves your attention, and you had her first. You'll find Nala a terrific home, and she doesn't have to go anywhere until you find the right fit.
Send Lisa in, She'll whipped em into shape :lol:

but think that is a great idea. I have lots of walks with my sons, it is such a great time to talk.
 
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