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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now, when I tried to explain that I thought I knew where Dixies animal agressivness came from, I was laughed at and made fun of!

I told members that when she was a pup, we were dog sitting and the large dog attacked her....accidently because he mistakenly thought she was a squirel in the dark. The next day, or a day or two later, still sore from that she had her ears done.

THIS is when her animal aggressivness started.

Is this true, a traumatic experience such as this has turned her mean towards other animals?Because she absolutly loved other animals up to this point?

When I mentioned this,I was told that a sound minded dog, especially a pitbull, would not be affected by what happened, that Dixie just had "bad genes".

Can we get the story straight here?Because now I am hearing different.
 

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Hmmmm....not sure, but I can tell you that after Chopper was "attacked" by a huskey is when his dislike for other dogs came to a head. I don't want to say aggressiveness, because I don't think that's what he is. But ever since then he's been a different boy. I'm sure it would've happened anyway, as he's a very dominant male, but that seemed to jumpstart it.
 

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I think with dog aggressiveness that yes, it can be caused, or made worse by a bad experience with another dog.

However, in Dixies case, it could just be a coincidence. After all, she is an APBT and may have ended up this way anyways. She was only a pup and just because she liked other dogs at the time, does not mean she would like other dogs as an adult. We all know that puppies, for the most part, are not dog aggressive. That usually comes with maturity and many times dogs become this way without ever having a bad experience with another dog.

I don't think that dog aggresiveness is always a case of "bad genes" or a nerve problem by any means. Although sometimes it can be an indication of that. You really neeed to look at the over all picture of the dog. Does it act nervy in other situations? Scared of thunderstorms or other loud noises? Nervous around people or new surroundnngs? Gets car sick. Stuff like that.

I have seen dogs that have rock solid nerves but were dog aggressive, and I have seen nerve bags who were also dog aggressive. It really depends.
 

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Dog aggresiveness is natural in most dogs of most breeds its maily a question of how you educate the dog to respond to situations where it would naturally behave aggresively.

You may have a nervous aggressor, like my male, or a dominant one, like my female. How you handle and teach them will ultimately determine how they are later when they make these decisions themselves.

Whatever anyone says you should have you pup off leash with a lot of other dogs from three months onwards, obviously in a park with owners present. Why? Because at three months your dog is not a threat to others and most adult dogs will not actually hurt a pup, a few will be agressive to them but not actually bite just mark the attack.

The reasoning is this to see what type of dog it is and which situations and dog types bother it, you need to expose it to them daily. Also to correct and develop its behavior you need the situtions there to work with.

Currently im in work with both of my dogs. Kaya for been possesive dominant around sticks and objects, and indeed games in general. Moto for being fear aggressive to large pushy dogs that try to get on top of him or stand over him.

Im having excellent results with Moto in particular in curbing the bites and training him to come to me if hes irritated or want rid of a dog bothering him.

The methods used are different because hes passive aggressive and shes dominant. With Kaya timeout and scolding work best. Slow work but losing play time and having to sit and watch are bringing her forwards. With Moto, OFF, timeout and some reassurance work. I was just told yesterday that the last of the pups around the same age as ours (that we know) has just turned dog aggressive and its sad. The dog spent much of the time leashed and unlike mine was not allowed to mis and play, so on the few occassions the owner tried it at 7-8 months its hardly a shock the dog took to making bad choices.

If you want a shot at a social dog, WORK on it!

One experience wont ruin your dog, just set them back, you then have to continue working to show open up time with more dogs so they learn how to handles things better and realise its not all about attacking!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Dixie is not scared of anything. Her and the pups were just looking out the window the other night at the lightening and rain and huge claps of thunder in one of the worst storms we have had so far this season and not even flinching. The lawnmower thing, they ignore it, fire works, no problem, strangers, alittle leary, but after a hand sniff, wonderful. And the dog aggressivness, well, that is out of our house, you can bring your dog in the home and she is alright, it is just outside of the home!

And, recently it has calmed down 90%!No more fence fighting, last night gunner ran out behind us to the fence all bowed up and barking, and every dog that I have (everypitbull) ran straight to my side, instead of the fence to fight! I say pitbull because my peke never passes an opportunity to run over and pee on him through the fence. They knew, after 2 years of fighting w/ Dixie about fence fighting, and I mean fighting through that fence hard, she came to me and sat. Do I trust her??heck no, she has shown me too much in the past, and even though she sat by me, her hackles stayed up!
It was as though gunner barked"Go heel!"and they all did.

She has matured alot.

The pups have always been socialized, however I do see it in their eyes when meeting other animals. They are careful. And chocy is ok unless the other dog smacks or jumps, he doesnt like that.

But I could never let them off leash anywhere, never. That justseems like asking for a dead dog, or seriously hurt one. To teach socialization properly, it just seems that you go through trial and error, why take that chance? "Well, I am training my dogs to get along with other dogs, so I am sorry she killed your dog, but she did learn a lesson, we will try again next week!"

I dunno, maybe it is just me, but they will always be on leaseh, even if I let them approach other dogs, this way I still have control.

I always wanted to have Dixie temperment tested, because I have read the requirements to pass the testing, and I really think shed do ok, except if another dog happened to be introduced!
 

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Sajoseph, I agree with you about keeping dogs on leash. I see aboslutely no benefit to having my dogs go nose to nose with others. In fact, I see it as a huge risk and liability! I wouldn't allow any breed of dog to do this, but I feel even more strongly about this when speaking about bullies. I haven't always felt this way BTW, I finally woke up to this about 4 yrs ago. I am lucky that nothing ever came of my poor choices.

All I ask from my dogs is that they can be in the presence of other dogs without freaking out and making a scene. My dogs are around other dogs on a regular CONTROLLED basis. They see other dogs at training all the time and are forced to work and focus on me while being fairly close to other dogs. I draw the line at the nose to nose off leash stuff. To me doggie playtime can be dangerous, and quite truthfully, I find it to be a waste of my time. I would rather use that time TRAINING and bonding with my dogs. I want to be the centre of their universe, not some other strange dogs.

Besides, why would anyone who wants a WELL trained RELIABLE dog to be having fun with otehr dogs anyways? I want my dog to know its fun comes from ME. We do training and they get rewarded with a game of ball or some tasty treats. If one constantly allows their dogs to run loose with other dogs, not only are they taking a huge RISK but they are teaching their dogs that they can have fun elsewhere, I don't want that because it is detrimental to my training. I want my dogs to IGNORE other dogs, not focus on them for their enjoyment. What they should be foucssed on is ME. I am what gives them pleasure.

Besides, who wants their bully on the 6 oclock news because some other dog got in its face at the dog park and started with it? I know I don't. BSL already has enough fuel for the fire. I don't need to contribute to that.
 

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When it comes to dog social skills I make sure my pups have overkill.

In the park when theres a large group of owners we all gather in a group and there can be anything from 10-15 dogs running around.

Moto is nervous as hell of big annoying dogs but hes lightyears ahead now than he was at six months. The real reason is because he has had to learn to deal with these animals. FOur or five full grown Goldens, little sausage dogs, mongrels, Great Danes, Waimers, you name it they will all be clustered around, sniffing, pushing stepping over and on.

Its great for the pups, they have no choice but to deal with things and realise that other dogs, annoying ones included are part of life they MUST learn to accept that. Obviously with my pups there are moments when they get shitty, those are my best training times. I see what situations bug them out and I take steps to correct the behavior and teach them to respond better to the situation.

The results with young pups are immediate. Also, with young pups, you have repeat behaviors the next day or with a new dog coming in and pushing around, then I reinforce and reinforce and reinforce.

Actually I love when the annoying dogs come along (i know them all know!) because its a chance to see how well they are developing in their ability to ignore and communicate with these animals.

For a dog who started with one simple technique, attack and attack some more whenever a dog he didnt like came within five feet, you would be stunned to see the difference in Moto now.
Dogs he started unable to take without really going for them, now he ignores, if they REALLY push it (as some dogs will) and keepin jumping on him he might take a little "Airsnap" at them, but nothing more than saying "back off buddy" andthen he will come to me and seek respite at my feet.

For me leashing and pulling away is the very worst thing you can do at a young age because thats when you ahve your best shot at teaching them to cope and you wont do that unless they are free to experience the full annoyance of the dog world. If you have them leash free from 3 months they dont stray much, for the first months theyb will never go further than 10 feet from you, after that they are so used to your voice its easy to guide them to stay close. When you and the other owners are there its safe enough for your pup and the perfect playground for developing dog skills.

Once in a while a dog will be unsavory to your pups, again accept that its part of dog life. Your pup has learned that not all dogs like to be annoyed....good lesson!
 

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sajoseph said:
Now, when I tried to explain that I thought I knew where Dixies animal agressivness came from, I was laughed at and made fun of!

When I mentioned this,I was told that a sound minded dog, especially a pitbull, would not be affected by what happened, that Dixie just had "bad genes".
Sorry that you received less than support last time you asked this question...

Regarding traumatic experiences, I know a rescue dog that was repeatedly beaten by a man. It HATES all men. It is fine with women or children but if a men even walks into the room it pees and cowers. If the man comes to it at any speed, it becomes aggressive. Think that would mean that this traumatic experience effected this dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No, not a doggy psychic, however, this other dog killed a squirrel a day at my home, and from what I hear kills them regularly at his home. We have tons of squirrels in our yard compared to his house, and during his stay, he knew/learned quickly that the squirrels were generally in the back corner where the oaks are, and not long into his first day, during potty time, he'd make a bee line out to that corner every time and try to catch one. One evening, Dixie was in that corner going potty in the dark, and Rookie came out after her and heard her making noise in the sticks, and just ran out and grabbed her up. He realized quickly, we saw the whole thing, he dropped her but she was so scared of him after that, we had to carry her around! I do not condone killing squirrels, and my dogs know better, they know theyd be in trouble, however, I did not raise my bro in laws stupid dog, he did,oh well!

I do not tug or pull my pups when out on a leash. When we encounter other animals, they do their sniffing/hello things and I make themheel, I give them the chance tosocialize, but I have control.

Ok, I can understand a 3 month old puppy, but would be more afraid of a bigger dog attacking it then a 3mo attacking another dog.
But at the rate these breeds grow, that wouldn't last long.

Im just like that. Even though we are buying acreage, my dogs will still always be in the house with us when we are not outside to watch them. NEVER will they have a chance, on 5 acres or 35 acres to roam unattended anytime, let alone in the public. And frankly, that is why obedience scares me as well. There are no perfect dogs out there, and my fear would be that I would be performing obedience with my dog, any one of them, and they are fully trained, but all of a sudden something throws them off and WHAM!Ya never know!

I would/wll be happy with dogs that tolerate other dogs, Id be greatful for dogs that love other dogs, however I know better!
 

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Its actually very rare for an adult dog to attack a pup, when they do its just a warning some growls and a snip, sometimes standing overthem with teeth bared snarling, showboating really. Looks more than it is.

Also its not common that stable adult dogs will hurt each other strangely enough. I know it happens sometimes, but the general rule of thumb is "warn them off" show dominance and avoid injury. This comes from the fact a free roaming dog cannot afford injury because it would possibly die.
The most common is both dogs standing on their back legs, faces together teeth bared snapping in each others faces and making a great deal of noise. Impressive but little more than posturing and showmanship. A stable dog is not malicious, if the other dog runs or submits the fight should break because the dominator has made its point.

In Argentina we have what are called "community strays" odd I know but true none the less. That means stray dogs are allowed to roam freely within the city, you will find them everywhere. Sleeping in the university classrooms on the floor, outside the shops, sleeping in the streets and parks. Theres loads of them. They once tried to capture them all and put them to sleep, so all of the people got together put collars on them, and protetsted. Eventually a LAW was passed protecting "community dogs". Now theres a whole swathe of free roaming strays, all vacinated, all stable and just romaing around the city as they please. Go two blocks you will see two or three community dogs.

When I first moved here I was wary of strays, but now im wiser. Actually they are the nicest dogs around, great with people and they never attack your dogs and rarely each other. Territorial disputes are settling with snaring posture and chasing the other dog off. They rarely engage in any kind of combat because injury is not healthy for wild animal and they strive to avoid it.

The odd dog loves other dogs, my last Bitch Kaya (smae name as my current) was the classic example, loved everything on four legs or two. My previous male Zak was a tolerator. Never particularly liked other dogs but was so well socialised as a pup he understood eating them wasnt the done thing, so he just ignored everything on four legs. If a dog came close he stood bolt stiff keeping his head high not showing them he was not in the least bit welcoming to their presence and they left him be. All kudos to him, I dont demand my dogs to love other dogs, just be well mannered and accept that the world goes on around them all the same.

Im the opposite of you. On leash I tug and I heel religiously. Leash work is command work, when on leash I lead they follow. Its not sniffing or playing time, its walking to my pace and my direction time until I let them loose.
They get a LOT of off leash time to chase frisby, play and run so its a fair balance. I wont have them tugging me around on the end of a rope because its bad manners from them.

If you can find a nice off leash park with a regular group of owners id reccomend taking pups there very young and socialising them daily with groups of dogs, it does wonders for their social skills and ability to dea with other canines. Also it provides you with vital chances to see and correct future problems in their responses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We avoid the doggy park, I think for the most part because it si not very clean there and I have heard too many peoples horror stories there.

We do have a big yard, and routinly travel whether its for therapy training, pet supply shopping, beaching it, or hiking, we are not home that often.

I dont lead noe follow my dogs on a leash, the are right next to me, on myright side. When I stop, they stop w/out command and sit immediatly unless told other wise.

Now, I will walk them through the park around the doggy park, next to the fence, just to constantly test them and keep them social.

Our biggest problem, we were told by 2 trainers with Dixie, and swore we wouldnt follow the same path with the pups, but somehow are, is that we have taught Dixie that she is part of the family, actually one of us! (yes, this is what they said) Therefore she thinks any animal outside the home, is exactly that, an animal, and she is not on their level, she is on our level.

I watch a dog whisperer show once, same thing, aggressive female pitty mix, aggressive to other animals w/ her owners. He came and get her, she got in a fight, he worked more with her, he took her everywhere off leash with other animals, changed 100%. Until she got home!!!As SOON as the owners walked her past another dog, she attacked it!!!

Oh well.


We will chase balls, skate and train on leash, not tight unless necessary while still babies!

I dont trust them!
 

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The reason for this is its lamost impossible to change territorial dominance.

I never bring dogs they dont know home because its rare in the extreme an adult dog will tolerate this. My house is their patch and all shades of hell would break loose if I started bringing these dogs home.

Thats something you have to just accept because its a behavior near impossible to correct. Since I never bring strange dogs home I dont really consider it since it never happens. Sure as fate though if I did it would be fur war!!

Somethings you can fix, somethings will always be that way. Dogs get really shirt about their own patch, although again its normally teeth, noise and chase of rather than blood and dead dogs. Still I wont be going out of my way to try it out!
 

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"Now, I will walk them through the park around the doggy park, next to the fence, just to constantly test them and keep them social."

How does walking them around the dog park keep them social?
 

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A good experience can ease aggression/anxiety, so a bad experience could trigger aggression. The dog aggression could have occured without the bad experience. We are half our genetics, and half our environment....again, nature vs nurture. :lol:
 

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I'm sorry you were made fun of for asking this before (I don't remember when).
Just so you know, it's a honest and good question and not silly at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Family of 5 said:
"Now, I will walk them through the park around the doggy park, next to the fence, just to constantly test them and keep them social."

How does walking them around the dog park keep them social?
Because I do not trust other dogs, off leash at a doggy park. Alot of p[eople do indeed walk their dogs around the doggy park, next to the fence, so they can socialize through the fence. I know it may not be right because they learn to depend on that fence being there, and can act as if they know the fence is their protector, however I will not be entering the doggy park with my dogs anyway, nor will my dogs ever be offleash in public anyways. This way they can still see and smell other animals, w/out getting attacked.
 

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I think I read some where that a lot of dogs who wouldn't fight/ be aggressive, are aggressive because of the fence....or maybe that was just a dream I had?!?

I don't blame you for not taking your dogs into the park.....I don't trust dogs off leash either. Some dogs are fine, but what really makes me nervous is that some people with aggressive dogs think that taking them to the dog park will cure their dog of the aggression (pretty scarey). I don't want my dog to be a guiney pig!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I have been told that she was fence fighting behind us for the simple reason that there is a fence!!!

However, didnt hld true when trainijg began. I WISHED there was a fence between her and the others!!!lol.

Either way, she has stopped fence fighting, and the others do not do it(yet)
 
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