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anchorchain said:
Is it easier to train with or without? Or is it considered cruel?
My first and second ridgebacks used them, but I don't use them at all now. They're a tool like any other tool.

Paula
 

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I've never liked choke chains. They put too much pressure on the trachea and can cause a lot of damage. Most bull-headed dogs just keep on pulling even when they're choking themselves. If your dog has had no formal obedience training, start off with a regular flat collar. It's not really fair to give a dog corrections (leash jerks, etc.) when he doesn't yet know what is expected of him. I use a prong collar when I walk and train my dogs. They know how to walk nicely on a leash and know their basic commands, so when they deviate, they get a little pop.
 

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Is it easier to train with or without? ?
I personally prefer them but it is rare that I have to use it ....I worked with a flat collar to begin with

Or is it considered cruel
Depends on who you are asking and if you know how to use it


Choke collars are very effective if they are used properly BUT most people don't use them correctly.....A choke collar should be used around the top of the neck not the bottom....If you are not confidant that you know how to use one get something else, a prong....Prongs are very effective too, I just preffer a choke bc I think that they are stronger....
 

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I am using a martingale on Patch. I don't like check chains.... especially because Patch is a PULLER and he pulls so hard that he often gags and chokes!!!
i used the check chain for one hour at training, then left halfway through to buy him the martingale.

He still pulls, but i don't think they're as cruel as a check chain...

and hopefully with training, he will stop pulling...
 

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When Gracie was about 5 months we got her a martingale because she was pulling a rediculous amount, dragging us down the street, my girlfriend couldnt even walk her. Tried the martingale, because it came highly reccomended by lotsa people I talked to, and I can honestly say the thing was useless with gracie. The corrections from it, did not even make her blink, she would continue to pull, and seemed strong enough to not be phased by the correction. In my experience I could not reccomend one of these for a bulldog or mastiff breed. I picked up a prong about a month ago, and could not be happier, the change was immediate and a complete 180 from her normal drag you down the street walk. She did not like the feeling of the correction from the prong one bit, and immediately walked perfectly by my side. Its made the difference between having to dread a walk with her, and actually looking forward to taking her out, because she walks perfectly by my side with her prong now. I back the prong as the better trainging collar for bullbreeds.
 

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Hi:
My name is Sue. I am new to this forum. I myself use martingales with great luck on my dogs as well as dogs that I train.
I don't like choker chains because I have seen too many people use them the wrong way. I would use a prong collar any day over a choke. Someone else posted
http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm (a great link to learning how to properly fit and use a prong collar)!
I say go with the path of least resistance and if needed than use a prong.
You also need to teach your dog how to "loose leash walk" along with any training device.
 

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I'll get a picture of her with it on so you can see asap but it is a muzzle type collar that goes around the snoot with another loop that goes around the neck. The snoot part has a ring for attaching the lead. The idea is quite simple, when you pull back on the lead you are pulling on the snout rather than the neck. Where the head goes so goes the dog. If she starts walking ahead or pulling you correct with the lead and it simply pulls the head around by the snout.

As with anything you don't want to yank their head off thier shoulders but in our experience only small corrections are needed. The hard part was finding one that fits. Our trainer gave us one that didn't work because the loop kept riding up into her eyes. The Snoot Loop, which is a brand, fits much better and we got it at Pet Smart or Petco.

The other interesting thing is that it is a type of correction that dogs are instinctively familiar with. A mother will sometimes grab a pup over the snout with her mouth as a "don't do that." A little pressure on the snout is all you need.
 

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I do not think Haltis, snood whatevers, or Gentle Leaders are safe for dogs AT ALL. They can actually break a dog's neck. Here's something I found online... http://www.floridapets.net/praises.html


We used to think these collars might be OK for training purposes with larger dogs. You've probably seen these around. These collars have a neck strap and a nose loop. But we have recently learned these too are not recommended by the experts. While these collars are not muzzles, nor do they "choke" an animal, they do apply pressure to the back of the dog's neck, effectively tilting the neck sideways and causing a dog discomfort and often creating the formation of "rub lines" across a dog's nose...not cool! One trainer we talked to said they also give other people the impression that your dog is "vicious." If you're taking your dog out in public, into dog parks, around children, etc., why would you want to make your dog seem mean and out of control? One of the Web sites we found that sell the Gentle Leader® collars calls them the, "Ten Minute Attitude Adjuster" and frankly, that attitude from humans makes us wince!
I personally feel sorry for any dog forced to wear one of these devices. It makes the dog look pathetic and sad.
A properly fit Pinch collar is way more humane, and safer to use.
 

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I'm sure you COULD break a dogs neck with a snoot loop. I don't need a link to a web page to convince me of that. I bet I could choke my dog to death with a choke collar if I strung her to a tree with it and I could most likely put a prong through her throat if I were so inclined.

These are all simply tools we use to train our dogs to do what we want. If we choose to use them otherwise, or in an inhumane way, than perhaps it is we that are the problem and not the tool or the dog.

You really don't need to feel bad for my pup. Her daddy loves her.
 

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Andrew said:
I'm sure you COULD break a dogs neck with a snoot loop. I don't need a link to a web page to convince me of that. I bet I could choke my dog to death with a choke collar if I strung her to a tree with it and I could most likely put a prong through her throat if I were so inclined.

These are all simply tools we use to train our dogs to do what we want. If we choose to use them otherwise, or in an inhumane way, than perhaps it is we that are the problem and not the tool or the dog.

You really don't need to feel bad for my pup. Her daddy loves her.
I agree with Andrew. These are just all tools and all can be used incorrectly. Frankly I prefer a halti or gentle leader to a choke collar because it requires a lot less power to control a dog who cannot walk on lead. Having been in ridgeback rescue for years I have had to rely on the halti to walk a dog with no leash manners - a choke would just have injured the dog otherwise. I don't think the you're in any danger breaking your dog's neck with a GL or halti any more than you're in danger of breaking a horse's neck with a bridle.

For some time now MY dogs have been trained to heel on a buckle (flat) collar. My latest acquisition - my AB/pit mix female - came with a sighthound style martingale collar (1") that works so well with her that I'm going to replace it with another when I return this collar to her foster mom (her foster usually fosters greyhounds). I'm about past using choke chains. The only application for a choke chain that I've had is with 6 puppy mill adults who'd never been on lead and never been handled. I had a big link (read useless) choke in my basket that I'd taken off some previous rescue and used it just to maintain a close contact around the dogs' necks so they couldn't back out of it and run (as they would have a flat collar). So it was usefull to stop a skittish terrified animal from bolting and the links were so large that they wouldn't be useful to deliver a correction anyway.

Paula
 

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We have used choke collar on Sasha - she just pulls away and would easily choke herself. So we tried a Gentle Leader. It works great on Maggie - it does exactly as it advertizes and we got immediate control from her pulling for the first time in 6 years!
However, when we used it on Sasha - she just digs in and continues to pull!
So my husband is currently using a regular harness on her and a long lead. We are hoping to leanr better techniques and how to use whatever tools are out there at Obedience class! We just didn't want to move to a prong or martingale until we learn what we should be doing ourselves.
Plus I am learning allot from reading here. I never would have considered a prong collar because it looks so hip-hop but I can see that it can be used as a temporary tool to modify behavior and would buy it if our instructor recommends it.
 
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