[ambull040769]

I was just searching through some threads on this forum and got a good laugh at all the people on here talking about some pictures of pitbulls (THATS NOT A PITBULL BLA BLA BLA) it dont look like a pitbull its too big! Just to inform ya a pitbull is a working dog and there are alot of different blood lines and they are going to look different depending on what they was bread for! A dog who has fighting bloodline maybe a little slimmer and shorter and weigh 50 or 60lbs but then take a breeder that breeds them for the sole purpose of hunting wildboar this bloodline was developed with the purpose of holding a wild hog that weighs 300 plus pounds and there for has to be a heavier and stockier type of dog that could weigh over 100lbs! Conformation is the kennel clubs interpretation of what the think a dog should look like and as a result often breed out the dogs working ability to achieve a certian look! The AKC is the worst when it comes to this take a german shepherd for example AKC looks pretty but all their drive and guarding instincts are gone, the police do not use akc german shepherds for this reason they use NKC dogs and offten they have longer hair of different colors and often look like they are a mixed breed (How do I know this) Because we work with our local police and sheriff departments K9 unit thats how. Another example would be a husky! Look at all the husky's at a dog show but then look at the husky's that actually work pulling sleds in Alaska and you will see a big difference they look like mutts but they are husky's just developed over the years to do a better job for which they was purposely bread to do! Let the arguing start I have raised pitbulls for over 20 years and have worked with pretty much every blood line out there and I love to argue when I know I am right!

 

[attitude]

exactly! but don't you think that a breed that is a "working breed" has a problem when field dogs and ring dog have a completely different look?
ie: field lab-ring lab, working shepherd-sport shepherd and most field-ring spaniels

 

[ambull040769]

No I dont. I judge a dog by his performance and the ability to do the job he was intended to do!

 

[attitude]

ok, but what about this standard from the adba. to me it says that a pb is not a shorter stocky square dog but lean and "athletic" (subject to interpetation) taller than wide. there is no mention of weight/size but only of structure. i myself have seen 90lb pit but they still looked very much what my idea of a pit is

"
I. Introduction

A. To truly understand any breed standard, one must know the history behind a breeds existence.

B. The purpose of a judge is the unbiased selection of quality breeding stock with true breed type.

C. The responsibility of judging is to put up the dogs that conform most to the conformation standard leaving personal bias aside.

II. Overall Appearance 20 points

A. Conforming to breed type

1. Should look like an American Pit Bull Terrier from across the ring

2. Sturdy, three dimensional. Giving the impression of strength, not slight or frail.

3. Appears square, with heavy boned, solid front end with a light and springy back end.

4. Should look athletic, not bulky. Musculature should be smooth but defined.

5. Presentation of an adult dog should be of a lean, exercised animal showing a hint of rib and backbone (without hipbones showing) with muscles firm and defined. Clean, glossy coat with short trimmed nails. Presentation of dogs in the puppy classes should be of a well nourished puppy, showing no ribs, backbone or hips. Coat should be glossy with short, trimed nails.



B. Balance

1. Equal angulation of front and rear assembly - judged best at the trot.

2. Height to weight ratio - the tallest dog at a given weight

3. Head size in proportion to the body, with a neck long enough to have the head appear above the top of the back when head is in a normal upright position.

C. Presentation

1. Dog is socialized , showing interest in things around him.

2. Although some degree of dog aggressiveness is characteristic of the breed, unruly behavior will detract from the judges ability to accurately judge an individual dogs conformation."

 

[ambull040769]

You are talking about show dogs with no working ability! Your perfect pitbull would be an AKC amstaff it is a pitbull the AKC just dont recognize a pitbull as a breed because there was too many varieties so hence the amstaff was born so the akc could have control over what they think the breed should look like! But take that amstaff hog hunting or put him in a pit with a game bread pitbull and he would not survive! The UKC recognize the pitbull breed but they are slowly but surely moving in the direction of the AKC and soon will be breeding out working ability as well, it's going to take time but it will happen!

 

[attitude]

so true

 

[AllAmericanPUP]

Yes dogs are going to look different when bred for different things, thats why there is the APBT(smaller 30-50lbs) and the AST(a bit bigger usually around the 50 or 60lb range). one bred for work and one bred for show. but there is absolutely NO reason for these big fat overdone mutts who are 16 inches tall and 100lbs. those dogs are simply bred for their owners ego and nothing more.

Huskys that are shown and Huskys that work are two different breeds anyhow, the Siberian Husky is a show dog and the Alaskan Husky is a working breed and is technically a mutt.

When breeding strictly for show you lose alot of what a dog/breed is. Wich is why i think any dog that is bred should have Working and Conformation titles or just Working titles. but not just Conformation(except for the lil guyz but even still they can do things like agility and earth dog trials(depending on the breed)

 

[vodka6483]

thats why pitbulls originally looked different from each other because they werent bred for looks they where bred for gameness and fighting ability. im witbh ambull when it comes to dogs i go for working ability over looks

 

[pitmommy]

I for the pedigree too,

 

[kogeki]

Yes, all dogs are going to look different. I dont think dogs should be bred based on looks. Thats just assinine. But when you have one of these 100lb bow-legged pit, you cant tell me they were bred for working abilites and not looks. They were bred to satisfy the mentality of bigger is better. I'm sorry, those big assed, unhealthy pits arent going to work anything. There is nothing wrong with a dog that goes againt the "standard, but if it effects the dogs physical health negatively than I dont think it should be bred.

 

[pitmommy]

sometimes you get big, bigger and biggest. :twisted:

 

[pitmommy]

Yes, all dogs are going to look different. I dont think dogs should be bred based on looks. Thats just assinine. But when you have one of these 100lb bow-legged pit, you cant tell me they were bred for working abilites and not looks. They were bred to satisfy the mentality of bigger is better. I'm sorry, those big assed, unhealthy pits arent going to work anything. There is nothing wrong with a dog that goes againt the "standard, but if it effects the dogs physical health negatively than I dont think it should be bred.

Its no different than breeding a dog for just a color. Look at the health problems the blue dogs have developed. I have seen a lot of those bow legged dogs your talking about and the UKC puts them up. they win. But look at Pat Patricks dogs, they were large and awsome and were from the original pit brat pack.

 

[kogeki]

Yes, all dogs are going to look different. I dont think dogs should be bred based on looks. Thats just assinine. But when you have one of these 100lb bow-legged pit, you cant tell me they were bred for working abilites and not looks. They were bred to satisfy the mentality of bigger is better. I'm sorry, those big assed, unhealthy pits arent going to work anything. There is nothing wrong with a dog that goes againt the "standard, but if it effects the dogs physical health negatively than I dont think it should be bred.

Its no different than breeding a dog for just a color. Look at the health problems the blue dogs have developed. I have seen a lot of those bow legged dogs your talking about and the UKC puts them up. they win. But look at Pat Patricks dogs, they were large and awsome and were from the original pit brat pack.

Breeding just for color is terrible also. I've seen plenty of nice big healthy pits. But they are usually from working lines not show lines.

 

[yungster]

This seems like a healthy debate so I will throw in my opinion. I understand what the original poster said about breeding for purpose of wild-boar hunting (or something like that) but you also see BYBs breeding for size and selling to the thugs who just think they look "cool." So I see both sides of the coin being played.

 

[pitmommy]

I would like to know what you guys classify as a byb. I may be one. :roll: I think if you know your dog has bad qualities and you can be honest with yourself, it should not be bred. Are those thugs wanting little pits now.

 

[Lisa]

I would like to know what you guys classify as a byb. I may be one. :roll: I think if you know your dog has bad qualities and you can be honest with yourself, it should not be bred. Are those thugs wanting little pits now.

The problem lies in evaluating a dog. Your average backyard breeder has no idea what they are looking at (especially in terms of temperament), so even if a person *thinks* they are breeding a good quality animal, doesn't mean they are. Some people's gems are other people's POS, especially when you are dealing with working breeds that pet owners insist on breeding. Just because a dog makes a good pet, doesn't make it a good example of a breed and definitely doesn't mean it should reproduce. Most dogs being bred these days are pet quality at best and when their owners insist on breeding them they are doing nothing more than diluting the gene pool with poor quality dogs. Most of the dogs today that are being bred intentionally, are no better than the dogs you could get in a shelter. Most people breeding their dogs these days seem to have no or very low standards, and that is sad.

 

[pitmommy]

OH NO I am a BYB!!!!!!!!!

 

[Storm]

I would like to know what you guys classify as a byb. I may be one. :roll: I think if you know your dog has bad qualities and you can be honest with yourself, it should not be bred. Are those thugs wanting little pits now.

The problem lies in evaluating a dog. Your average backyard breeder has no idea what they are looking at (especially in terms of temperament), so even if a person *thinks* they are breeding a good quality animal, doesn't mean they are. Some people's gems are other people's POS, especially when you are dealing with working breeds that pet owners insist on breeding. Just because a dog makes a good pet, doesn't make it a good example of a breed and definitely doesn't mean it should reproduce. Most dogs being bred these days are pet quality at best and when their owners insist on breeding them they are doing nothing more than diluting the gene pool with poor quality dogs. Most of the dogs today that are being bred intentionally, are no better than the dogs you could get in a shelter. Most people breeding their dogs these days seem to have no or very low standards, and that is sad.

AMEN!

 

[Storm]

OH NO I am a BYB!!!!!!!!!

Is that supposed to be funny?!
People like you make me sick...

 

[pitmommy]

Than go throw up :twisted: