[nanniesrock]

I've been wondering about this.....what do you do if the dog chooses not to come?....I finally found my favorite training book, "Mother Knows Best", and this is her advice. Go to your dog, snap on his lead, sayCOME, COME, COME, and walk back t precisely where you were when you first called. Practice recall for at least five minutes (for a young puppy), or until they're REALLY sick of practicing.
I constantly make analogies to kids, and this trick always works like a charm for me :lol: Basically, if you don't do what I say, I'll be fair, but you're gonna really, really wish you'd listened the first time. :lol:

 

[gazar]

The one thing I have learned about dogs returning to you, is that they need a reason to come back which is greater than the temptations that await them if they do not. Come to think of it, I guess that goes for people, too.

 

[nanniesrock]

I certainly agree that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and positive reinforcement works better than ngative. However, if your dog gets cheeky, and just wants to do as he pleases, shouldn't this behavior be corrected? Have you used other methods with good results?

 

[gazar]

I certainly agree that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and positive reinforcement works better than ngative. However, if your dog gets cheeky, and just wants to do as he pleases, shouldn't this behavior be corrected? Have you used other methods with good results?

On recall, I think you have to be carefull with correction. If a dog feels it will be corrected, they may run. To me no matter how many times you have to get the dog, each time when the dog is returned to it's spot it needs to be told good dog and ignore them not doing it in the first place. I learned (a few years back) to put a long, long rope on a dog and allow the dog to go. Then recall your dog and pull on the rope at the same time, doing this until the dog is at your side and then reward him. Keep training like this until the dog returns on his own. I was also taught to let the rope out a little at a time for each session until it is fully out. I do believe that patience is the key here to recall.

 

[peeblerelf]

I've been wondering about this.....what do you do if the dog chooses not to come?....I finally found my favorite training book, "Mother Knows Best", and this is her advice. Go to your dog, snap on his lead, sayCOME, COME, COME, and walk back t precisely where you were when you first called. Practice recall for at least five minutes (for a young puppy), or until they're REALLY sick of practicing.
I constantly make analogies to kids, and this trick always works like a charm for me :lol: Basically, if you don't do what I say, I'll be fair, but you're gonna really, really wish you'd listened the first time. :lol:

You have to be careful with how long you practice with the recall. that is the one command you don't want to become too "ordinary" and must always be a fun game. I do believe in correcting on a recall, and have done the same thing you have mentioned. The recall is a tricky one. I have also heard of people using a really lightweight string, like fishing line or something, so the dog doesn't THINK he's on leash but you can still correct them if they act up.

 

[PeterC]

I have not read "mother knows best". But if that is the recommendation, that is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

You just taught your dog NOT TO COME TO YOU. Think about it.

Practice until it is really "sick and tired" of it. So, you just taught the dog to HATE training and especially the recall.

SNAP on his head? Do you mean hit his muzzle or head? So, you just hit the dog and you just showed that you are "unpleasant" and painful. Now, you expect him to come to you quickly?????

A dog is a creature of habit. It responds quickly to conditioning and reinforcement (positive or negative). It responds quicker to positive rewards and WITHHOLDING OF REWARDS.

Ask yourself this. WHY SHOULD YOUR DOG COME TO YOU QUICKLY? What is the payoff? Food, ball, or attention. Reward EVERYTIME! Don't be inconsistant. You train your dog this way so that when you DO need him to come........he will..........quickly.

PS. don't ever ever ever punish your dog with your hands. BAD BAD BAD idea.

 

[Kate]

SNAP on his head? Do you mean hit his muzzle or head? So, you just hit the dog and you just showed that you are "unpleasant" and painful. Now, you expect him to come to you quickly?????

I read this part as snapping the leash, as in pulling back on the collar like when you are walking with a prong, you snap the leash to give the prong a quick tug. I could be wrong though

 

[sajoseph]

I have got to get a good book regarding this.

Cato always hangs in the by and when I call, nooo, he has got to walk off into the bushes.

I dunno why he does this, as if he is scared of me to walk past me.

Like it is a game to him.

I have never done anything beofre. Must be those dang avacados. The neighbors avacado tree is dropping them in our yard, and Cato was eating them like crazy and got the runs, so when I see him with them I take them. So now, I guess he thinks I am not happy when I call him from the yard. Even though I have cookies always waiting. He scoots in past me, usually waiting until Im not looking then waits his turn for a cookie.

Now in the house, ha comes on command.

Go figure, strange puppy. Very confused, almost trying too hard to please, that hes getting it backwards!!!Lol.

Anyway, back to your topic!! Didnt wanna hijack, just felt strongly like puting my two cents in, because I have a recall problem with the squirt!

 

[nanniesrock]

Yes, the word snap, or whatever it was, was refering to a quick upward tug on the leash. I would never hit my dog.

 

[nanniesrock]

I have not read "mother knows best". But if that is the recommendation, that is the dumbest thing I ever heard.

You just taught your dog NOT TO COME TO YOU. Think about it.

Practice until it is really "sick and tired" of it. So, you just taught the dog to HATE training and especially the recall.

SNAP on his head? Do you mean hit his muzzle or head? So, you just hit the dog and you just showed that you are "unpleasant" and painful. Now, you expect him to come to you quickly?????

A dog is a creature of habit. It responds quickly to conditioning and reinforcement (positive or negative). It responds quicker to positive rewards and WITHHOLDING OF REWARDS.

Ask yourself this. WHY SHOULD YOUR DOG COME TO YOU QUICKLY? What is the payoff? Food, ball, or attention. Reward EVERYTIME! Don't be inconsistant. You train your dog this way so that when you DO need him to come........he will..........quickly.

PS. don't ever ever ever punish your dog with your hands. BAD BAD BAD idea.

Hi Peter C.! I almost wish you had read this book, b/c I'm probably paraphrasing horribly, and she actually seems to make sense in the book. (At least I thought so).

You wrote: Ask yourself this. WHY SHOULD YOUR DOG COME TO YOU QUICKLY? What is the payoff?
Asking myself this, honestly, I think my dog should come to me quickly b/c I'm her master, and I damn well said so.
What is the payoff? Maybe it will be that she doesn't get hit by a car, get in a fight, or worse.
My point is that I want her to come whether I have a hot dog in my pocket, or not. I can't always be the most interesting thing; Harley LOVES other dogs, she would run up to meet every one she could if she had a choice. Recently her collar broke on a walk as we were passing a yard where the dog had an invisible fence. :shock: I yelled and ran in the opposite direction, and Harley chose to chase me, thank god, but it's not b/c she's so well trained I won't even pretend to go there. But in that instant, I had no reward to offer her to come to me. That other dog was WAY more exciting than me. It's situations like that where 100% training is needed. I'm like maybe 1/2 way there.....(OK, that's optimistic)

 

[GTChick01]

We taught Torco by using a reward - treats. We'd practice around the house and we'd say, "Torco COME!" and he'd literally RUN to us from anywhere in the house. Now that he knows the recall, we only use treats a fraction of the time, but he still comings running to us when we call him, even outside our house.

 

[angie7349]

Tora is good at coming she would never miss a chance for a possible treat lol.... I gave her treats everytime she came to me for a while but now she may get a treat or a rub but it is always pleasant....If she is in trouble I never call her to me I go to her..I still praise her everytime she comes like a manic ..I don't want to ruin a good thing here....If she starts to look like she is going to try to not come to me I tell her "NO!" then she comes

 

[Lisa]

I think the biggest mistakes people make with their dogs and coming when called is that many people don't take the time to break down the exercise and teach the dog what "come" actually means and have them realiable ON leash long before they expect a solid recall off leash. The dog has to be cognitive of the command before one can expect a good recall. I am by no means saying this is the case with you, nanniesrock, but I think some people actually expect their dogs to know the recall and other commands straight out of the womb with no teaching. :shock: I believe in teaching them positively first so that coming to you is good. Gradually wean them off the rewards but never eliminate them totally and make sure you have a way to correct the dog (if its mature enough and cognitive of the command) before you call it. I also think people give commands way to loosely when they don't really mean it or have a means or interest in enforcing it. If a command is given the dog MUST follow through 100% of the time. The dog must never learn it can ignore you. If the dog is young or recieved only minimal training it is much better to go get your dog out in the yard or lure it with a treat or toy then to give them a formal command only for them to ignore you due to insufficient training. Very counter productive.

 

[Hank da Tank]

Over in the working dog section i posted some questions about WP and sajoseph gave me a link to a website that teaches commands for dogs to pull. It talks about walking a dog on a leash at first and giving him some slack and then make up a command such as pull or something then pull the dog back slowly and praise. Then try to let the dog come back to you on its own, this is supposed to get the dog to come to you when its pulling. Is a dog going to get these two commands mixed up ? Meaning the come command and whatever you make the other command to be such as pull. I guess they are sort of the same, but will this cause any confusion ?

 

[sajoseph]

I think if done cleverly, they will learn the difference, I have encountered the problem with them pulling constantly on the leash, this is why I kinda skipped the leash part, and instead have them stay and call them. Using the pull command.

 

[Jenn]

He scoots in past me, usually waiting until Im not looking then waits his turn for a cookie.

If I'm understanding right, by your statement. It sounds to me like you've taught him that basically, he doesn't have to listen to you, and will get a cookie. So why should he, he still gets rewarded for doing nothing? He gets rewarded for ignoring you, and for the action that you don't want him to be doing.

 

[PaulaEdwina]

The one thing I have learned about dogs returning to you, is that they need a reason to come back which is greater than the temptations that await them if they do not. Come to think of it, I guess that goes for people, too.

Gazar you absolutely beat me to it! EXACTLY! A dog has to want to come back to you more than he wants to do what he's doing. Here are MY rules to improving recall.

1. Develop a good habit (him coming when you call) by only calling him when you know he's going to come - like at meal time. You will find that a good habit is a good habit is a good habit. So if he gets into the good habit of coming when you call for his food you're on your way to a good recall.

2. Do not repeat your commands. Come becomes comecomecomecomeheredamitdogcomegoddamit.

3. Never punish a dog when he comes to you. Always reward a good recall. Even if your dog has done a horrible thing if you punish him when he comes to you you're punishing the recall.

Now I've learned this from having SIGHTHOUNDS for years. Sighthounds are ESPECIALLY not interested in coming when called in the field.

Paula

 

[PaulaEdwina]

The one thing I have learned about dogs returning to you, is that they need a reason to come back which is greater than the temptations that await them if they do not. Come to think of it, I guess that goes for people, too.

Gazar you absolutely beat me to it! EXACTLY! A dog has to want to come back to you more than he wants to do what he's doing. Here are MY rules to improving recall.

1. Develop a good habit (him coming when you call) by only calling him when you know he's going to come - like at meal time. You will find that a good habit is a good habit is a good habit. So if he gets into the good habit of coming when you call for his food you're on your way to a good recall.

2. Do not repeat your commands. Come becomes comecomecomecomeheredamitdogcomegoddamit.

3. Never punish a dog when he comes to you. Always reward a good recall. Even if your dog has done a horrible thing if you punish him when he comes to you you're punishing the recall.

Now I've learned this from having SIGHTHOUNDS for years. Sighthounds are ESPECIALLY not interested in coming when called in the field.

Paula

Sorry, I meant to add. If you call your dog and he doesn't come, don't call him again, just go get him. Go back to the "come fore" on leash. And see my list of only calling when he's garaunteed to come to begin to develop a good habit.

Paula

 

[PeterC]

nanniesrock........

your quote "Asking myself this, honestly, I think my dog should come to me quickly b/c I'm her master, and I darn well said so."

Well, it is obvious your assumptions are wrong. Many people get frustrated because they feel they are the masters and the dog should do whatever it says.

Listen. Dog training is simple if you follow the rules. Know what motivates your dog. Seriously, it is not always YOU. I know my girl responds to weiners like nothing else. My boy, a tug. If you think you saying "good boy" is enough of a motivator (or should be), you are wrong. They feel that it SHOULD BE ENOUGH and when it does not work, they use force or compulsion. As many of you already stated, this creates a dog that tries to ignore you.

I don't like complusion. I use it very sparingly and very impactfully. I never want to be the giver of negative feelings towards the dog. I want to be "mr reward" for my dogs, not "the big boss man master". Change your mindset. Like I said, I think the problem here is YOU, not the dog. he is probably like any other dog I have ever met. I tend to use compulsion or SNAP with a dog that knows the command implictly, a fairly high level OB dog, usually to overcome a distraction.........NEVER EVER to punish. Again, change your mindset as to WHY you are using compulsion.

Now, some say that you may not always have a toy or food as a reward. True. However, we are TRAINING! We are building conditioned response. That is what training is. Dogs are creatures of habit. When a car is crashing towards your dog and you need it to come in a FLASH, it will respond.

now, after you have mastered that, the next level is the introduction of the e collar to REALLY make your dogs quick, after it has mastered the foundation.

If you ever go to a training club. YOU will never see a person DRAGGING their dog to come. Why? The trainer knows what motivates his/her dog.

Again I ask you, "WHAT MOTIVATES YOUR DOG LIKE NONE OTHER?" If you don't know, you cannot train your dog.

 

[PaulaEdwina]

"Know what motivates your dog. Seriously, it is not always YOU."

That should be posted somewhere prominent. Maybe as a signature. Hmmmm.....

PeterC do you mind if I use it as a signature?

Paula