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My APBT Ava, long before she had any protection training while living the good life as a family pet had a live bite on an intruder. She would most certainly bite an intruder for real. I can have company over and she doesn't need to be put up, you just wouldn't want to try slipping in through a window or come barging through the door.

 

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Wait what??? An intruder is an intruder what difference does it make if they're passive or threatening? Is there a difference between an armed and unarmed burglar it's still a burglar.

 

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I now understand what you're saying. Out of the dogs we have Ava and Comanche would engage an intruder passive or aggressive. Capone would engage but would need some stimuli to get him moving.

 

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I also didn't take passive as meaning retreating. To me passive can still have forward motion. Wouldn't someone sweet talking your dog while moving forward be considered passive?

 

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Threads like this one make me laugh. So many speak out on things that they have no knowledge of. Give me a rolled up newspaper and I 'll show you how quickly your dog will run. It's easy for a dog to look tough behind a door or being held back when no real threat is being presented to them. Most dogs don't have it in them to protect. It's comical when you really think about it. How long have dogs been bred to have bite inhibition towards humans? How many threads are there about teaching a pup bite inhibition? Now people want to weigh in that somehow after being selected and taught not to bite that a certain set of circumstances will override all that.

It's a special dog that has the courage and character to be willing to stand toe to toe with a man. To think otherwise is foolish.

 

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The big guns have come out, the natural guardian card has been played. While I believe there are dogs out there that fit that mold they are not as common as most think. Most often times owners misinterpret a dog's behavior as being protective when in fact the dog was exhibiting another reaction/behavior.

Nebguy what is your experience with working dogs? You bought your dog from a breeder that tests their stock for natural guardian traits? Have you tested your dog for these traits? Are you suggesting that I'm wasting my time training my dogs to do what only comes naturally to your dog? Really what would I possibly know about dogs and their ability to protect, I mean I only have 5 adults that are currently trained/worked in the exact thing the topic is about. I know I'll squash it with, I'm not a dog handler but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

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Good point Nebguy. All of my dogs have time with the family, Chance 12, Eli 4months, Mallory (majestikmoose), and I. My dogs are also out and about in public being loved on by strangers (well sometimes I'm nice, can't be a jerk all the time). Never do I worry that my dog is going to bite. If that was a concern of mine the dog would be on a one way trip to the vet for a little blue juice. A dog that can't be out when people are around can't protect you.
I really hate comparing dogs to humans, but. Is a boxer, wrestler, martial artist, or any body trained or working in a field that uses or experiences violence more prone to being violent unwarranted?

 

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i hope im not coming off as anti training because i am not, Rocco will be in pro training as soon as he is old enough. I just dont subscribe to the thoughts that a dog is useless to protect u without training for sure. Non of u know for sure, uve never had a attacker un top of ur wife beating her and her screaming. Scenario is what ever it aint real, if u have had this happen then u for sure no ur dog did nothing. If not its a guess! A cop encounters a dog at a suspects home he immediately draws his gone and tells the suspect to call off his dog, why? The TRAINED officer who has been through real situations knows every dog is a potential threat, he dosent have this BS idea that yeah i yell and stomp my feet and this 120 lb dog will pee and run and hide. If u dont call off the growling dog its dead hell shoot it. Im assuming all u guys think dogs sensing when something is wrong or being extra protective over babies or pregnant moms is BS, you dont think ur dog can sense real danger in ur fear rather than a scenario? Its a real crap shoot, i think a well socialized dog would not attack an intruder just him and the dog, especially if hes being nice. However a intruder attacking u in your home is a different story when there is real fear. Of course a dog aint gonna act like a traind dog and latch down and attack and release on command, does that mean he wont fight for his life or yours who knows unless its happened. Im 350 lbs train jiu jitsu bench press 405 lbs a dog wldnt kill me i would kill it b4 then do i have this dilution that he wldnt bite me ? No i fully expect to get roughed up and need medical attention in a fight with me and a dog. idk im rambling i guess, please no hard feelings this is a debate remember lol

You speak from pure ignorance, unadulturated ignorance. You're so sure of yourself based on your opinion and feelings. No practical experience in which to base your opinions. Back it up, post up some proof. I got video after video to prove my point. I'll even use my own very dog as an example.

 

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u have vids of actual life or death sit? NOPE ! You cant duplicate that in training period!

Actually I can dig up a vid of a real life encounter, the trained dog didn't keep with it and was easily kept off a bite.

 

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Here's a thread about my dog. He as been in training for most of the years he's been alive. The vid was shot in an area that he has been for protection training and on a helper that he has been worked on. The only difference is that any trace of equipement has been eliminated.
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/forum/working-dogs/63284-little-scenario-work-juggs.html
While he did engage he hesitated, wasn't committed to the leg bite, and was confused as to what he was suposed to do. This is a trained dog not some pot licker pet.

 

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Do you think that the hesitation was caused by the lack of a bite sleeve, etc.?Like I have said before, I don't know anything about this type of training, but I thought that your dog did a nice job. What do you think happens if you had dropped the leash? These are serious questions , I am in no way trying to argue trained versus non trained.. Thanks

My dog is equipment fixated, leave the equipment and remove the man and he'll light up on the equipment. Had I dropped the leash he most likely would have jumped on the helper. Through later work we have made things clearer for him.

 

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Protection/defending from a threat is not aggression.

 

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You're right there is a big difference between the two but I think she would defend us.

Then test it. Find a trainer/club and set up a test to see. While you're at it video it and post it up. I for one would love to see a "natural protector" get their groove on.

I spend a great deal of money, time, and effort training/testing my dogs for the very thing that so many say their dogs do naturally. How is it that my keen eye just hasn't been able to see these naturals. I could stand to save that money, time, and effort.

 

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Not to be a stickler, but exactly how does a dog differentiate between a gun and let's say an umbrella?

Most people thus far have only referenced a threat display as an indication of a dog's intent to protect. In reality it's called a display because that's what it is, a performance maybe even an Oscar worthy performance. An act, a bluff, hey look at me I'm big bad and scary stay away. It's not protection, it's a behavior to avoid conflict.

 

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Again I'll offer up this video.

This was a test, the first time in his training that this kind of scenario was presented to him. There is a thread in the working dog section regarding this video and I do believe I linked it earlier in this thread.

The dog didn't offer a threat display until after the session was over. It took the "bad guy" trampling the dog before he took action. I even uttered "watch him" which should have cued the dog up.

 

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Lisa I'm standing right along side of you banging my head on the wall. I think for those with the protection stories it boils down to results. The dog displays the visitor/intruder moves away therefore it must be protection.