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My mastiff would and does put on a good show but there is nothing behind it, she lacks nerve for sure.

Although I have seen her try and defend the family against other animals, dogs... but a person is different.

But I think the fact that nobody really wants to find out what she is going to do is what keeps people away.

she sits on a couch in front of our front window (all night) and watches
 

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IMO,most confuse the DESIRE of your dog to do something with your dog behaving in a way that can if push comes to shove act on those desires,in a desirable way. That to me is much of the difference between a real "natural guardian" and a trained dog.surely not all of it,but a part.

It's absolutely true,many of your dogs might have a desire or urge to do something,but what is that something? Plenty of dogs react aggressively to shouting,fighting etc but think about it,it's easy for your dog to try to scare a threat at a distance,through a window or a retreating threat.

I agree Lisa lets define what we want our dog to, as detailed as possible when we mean protection. To some,simply deterring a criminal by barking,even if the barking is fearful(like,dog about to piss itself fearful) has done it's job,the guy changed his mind about mugging that person. Others want a dog who will with COURAGE engage a bad guy,no matter what the bad guy throws at him,even if it means the person is running at your dog with a broom,shovel,big awkward sack of stolen goods etc.IMO the latter is what far too many dogs will not do. Most folks think their dog is somewhere in-between.

Will your dog stand ground when there us an aggressive charge?when the intruder picks up your chair and throws it right at your dog? Will your dog move forward when the bad guy comes at him?when he's being striked, kicked and punched?will he stay I'm there or hual ass out of that room? This is why I think training is important,I fully believe in scenario testing and work if you want an actual protection dog.

Also,I still think people are far to quick to assume the dog snapping at someone as "oh he was ready to bite that bad guy!!!" guess what,a dog who is afraid,looking for an escape will bite as well,usually to buy time to run away. It's way different to give a shallow bite that lasts a second than to commit to not only risk himself moving forward but IMO very very importantly to ENGAGE the person.
good post =D>
 

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Here's a thread about my dog. He as been in training for most of the years he's been alive. The vid was shot in an area that he has been for protection training and on a helper that he has been worked on. The only difference is that any trace of equipement has been eliminated.
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/forum/working-dogs/63284-little-scenario-work-juggs.html
While he did engage he hesitated, wasn't committed to the leg bite, and was confused as to what he was suposed to do. This is a trained dog not some pot licker pet.
I wanted to add that even dogs who can do well in SchH will not be able to what the above dog is doing in this video.

Removing the equipment is a HUGE deal for most dogs and it takes a VERY good dog to be able to push on without the reassurance of the equipment.

The less dogs actually guard and work the less they are capable of doing it. This is why European dogs are so popular with working dog owners, because the dogs are actually worked not just pranced around a show ring to prove genetics.

You can make the same statement about a line of LGD that has been actively working guarding livestock for generations, they may not look perfect but they sure can do what they are asked to do in the field and in real life situations.

We loose all these great traits of courage, drive, natural instinct when we stop testing and working our dogs.
Its really a shame.
 

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I wanted to add that even dogs who can do well in SchH will not be able to what the above dog is doing in this video.

Removing the equipment is a HUGE deal for most dogs and it takes a VERY good dog to be able to push on without the reassurance of the equipment.
That's gonna depend on the dog and its training.
There are trainers out there who work against equipment fixation. There are a number of dogs at my club who will climb over the equipment that they possess after a bite to go back after the helper.


You are right that removing the equipment can be an obstacle for dogs that are used to a bite sleeve or a suit. But that's why you also use things like hidden sleeves under sweatshirts. You can also work home break in scenarios and the like so the dog starts to learn to protect outside of the training field. But to say it will be an obstacle for all Sch dogs in particular is an over-generalization imo.
I didn't say it will be, I said I can be....
But I think I worded it wrong.

SchH is a sport, I have seen boarder collies, french bulldogs, JRT's doing.....it doesn't always translate to real life situations... and the real life situations are what really test the dog (is more of what I was going with lol)
 

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Orson has a pretty deep bark, I have found that bulldogs have a high pitched bark sometimes that really doesn't match their appearance.

I am pretty sure Horse will have a high pitched bark.

I should try and make a video of my mastiff putting on her show, she bears teeth and everything, her bark and growl are extremely deep (she will give a very low long growl and then one bark and repeat)... its pretty freaking scary if I didn't know she was a big baby.
 

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Lo is only 55 lbs and she has both a high pitched bark, like ear piercing, and a very deep bark like Orson, which i call her big girl bark. LOL.
She uses her high pitch for flirt poles and when she's in prey/excitement mode.
Horse talks, he will make these grumbling sounds, and baby sounds its so weird.

Especially if he is really tired and I am holding him, he will just look at me and talk his little heart out.

Today at the beach he was talking as well (I think he wanted some fries lol) but he was just sitting beside the bench talking away lol.

bulldogs are so weird
 

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I was reading some articles about AB's vs GSD's in SchH and PP, and the article pretty much stated that AB's and bulldogs need to be trained differently, they are not as biddable but more of an independent thinker when compared to herders.

So traditional training methods that may work perfectly for herders are not really the ideal way to train a bulldog, they just think differently.

Thoughts?

I have found Horse VERY easy to train but of course most puppies are, lets see how I feel about it in a few more months lol.
 

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But what we are labeling as stubborn, is it really a more intelligent dog?
A dog who thinks for themselves instead of being more biddable then some breeds.

I am not saying a biddable dog is not a good dog, certainly they are easier to train but if I wanted a livestock or home guardian without any training I certainly would want an independent thinker who is capable of making choices when I am not there to give commands.
 

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lol Lisa

Well now that I have officially been to a few SchH lessons I really see how hard it is to find a dog with the nerve we are talking about here. Watching some of the higher level dogs has really given me perspective of what we have been discussing on this forum regarding protection and drives.

People pay thousands of dollars importing these dogs and STILL do not get a dog with the nerve they are looking for. I think I lucked out with Horse as he seems to have all the right responses (so far) but its all in the breeding combined with the luck of the draw.
 
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