[Loki]

Loki (AB 6.5 months old) has gotten along wonderfully with every dog he has ever met. He gets so excited and all he wants to do is play. We take him to play groups and he goes to doggy daycare every week and he has never shown any signs of aggression. What I'm wondering is, whether or not this will ever change. Do ABs typically get more DA as they get older or is a friendly dog a friendly dog?

 

[Kate]

Kate used to love playing with dogs until about a little over a year old. Loki is very much a puppy still and hasn't started to mature. Once he matures he will come more into his set personality. And he may love other dogs forever. Or some dogs, he might feel challeged by and not love them. Such as Kate and her sister. Kate was always the dominant one and Madison just kind of went along with everything. At about 1yr and a 1/2 Madison came into her personality and became very dominant also. Now they cannot play nicely at all. But Kate gets along beautifully with our family dog.

Just keep an eye on him. As they say, hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

 

[Bogart]

I would start to be more cautious with your dog once he turns a year old like the above poster suggested. Bogart was great with other dogs when he was younger-he even played submissively (always rolled over on his back and stuff). For him things started changing betwen 1 1/2 to 2 years of age. Now he gets along with only certain dogs. We even have to be very careful on our walks making sure to avoid some dogs.

 

[OrsonDogge]

Bogart was great with other dogs when he was younger-he even played submissively (always rolled over on his back and stuff).

Same exact for Orson, except he changed at about 6 months!!!
He used to love watching dogs on tv, now he barks and charges t.v., just
like he does when he sees dogs on our walks (which I am trying to train to ignore them).
Weird thing is, he plays with other dogs at the boarding kennel. So Orson is dog-aggressive only around
his owners. So yes, don't count on him being dog-friendly forever..but you never know.

 

[Redbull]

My AB (diablo) seems to have been the opposite. He was a nutbar when he was younger lol...a real firecracker...he was always trying to dominate dogs all the way from being a little pup. I tried some early dog socialization and when he was 3 months old, he was dominating 5 month old Rotties, a 5 month old Dogo, and other pups, but never adults.

But with some obedience training I got him out of it a bit..well I think I have, but I can't test that theory because he only is around dogs that he lives with hehe. At least he stopped dominating his roomates though. He used to pin and growl like mad at that GSP he used to live with, but I was able to put a stop to that. I think most of that was just play though.

 

[Carrie]

AB aggression can hit at anytime...I have had some dogs that started showing dog aggression as early as 6 months, and others not until 2 years old...I've also ahd the occasional few that were not really aggressive at all unless another dog challenged them to begin with. You really just need to watch your dog and know the signs to look for ...body posturing, staring, etc..anything that could lead to a fight.

 

[cocoa_dad]

Sorry to dig up an old post but that is what i wanted to find out ?

What are the signs.

Right now cocoa doesnt really interact with alot of other dogs.

one social class and she was bullying the other pups. i read on here that dog parks aer not the way to go for this breed and she seems to be so lovable.

i want to know what signs to look for so i can stop them fast.

 

[Christel]

Cocoa most likely won't begin to show any signs of dog aggression until she is sexually mature.

The bullying of other pups is just her way of playing. They play hard, and well - they are called bullies

When and if the signs appear, you won't be in doubt. Growling, raised hackles, provocative stance (stiff body, tail and ears held high, staring).

 

[maryellen]

rufus was fine until 5 yrs old, then he started being DS- dog selective. now at almost 10 he either likes a dog or he doesnt. he is the silent type, no growing, no barking, he will just bare his teeth and go after a dog if he doesnt like them. introductions have to be slow over a month for him to be able to be with another dog supervised. some dogs he likes right off the bat he is fine with. it all depends on the dog

 

[Staben]

I am dealing with that issue now. My AB turned one and decided he does not like my Chihuahua. Like Maryellen's dog my AB is silent, no hackles... ears up, forehead wrinkled, stiff tail, wide stance, stiff body, and usually wide open eyes. Very intimidating and expressive face, unlike anything I have seen in another dog. Most dogs do a bunch of growling and showing teeth before they fight.

 

[maryellen]

staben your AB doesnt like your Chi because your Chi got away with being a rude brat to the AB lol...if the Chi didnt bully the AB your AB probably would like your chi... some dogs do hold grudges- mine held a grudge for 2 years with 2 dogs he grew up with who jumped him .... it took 2 years of constant training to get him to settle down when he saw them, and now we can actually walk with those dogs finally .... when dogs bully other dogs the dog who is bullied will eventually kick the bullys ass if no one steps in to protect him..

mine will play bow to get the dog closer lol, then once the other dog is close enough and thinks my dog wants to play then my dog goes after the unsuspecting dog..

some dogs give signs, most do. there are a ffew that actually wont give any signs at all. it all depends on the dog
you can socialize a dog up the wazoo and bottom line is whatever the genetics are is what the dog will be. one of my dogs was highly socialized from 8 weeks and up. all positive interactions ... she hit 2 and that was it, full blown DA to every dog except the dogs she lived with. i met her 2 half brothers and both half brothers were DA as well so her genetics all came from her father as all 3 dogs had the same father.

 

[QueenKoopa24]

I think that's a pretty bold statements that genetics cause DA. Even the most "ruthless" pitbull from the fighting pits can be rehabilitated to play with dogs. Dogs are MEANT to be in packs. They are MEANT to interact and play with each other. Socialization correctly will avoid DA. I just don't think humans know how to do it properly.

For instance, small lap dogs that were not bred to be dog aggressive, but many many are. Just like pitbulls that were bred to fight dogs can get along fine and play with others. Genetics are just a small part of the puzzle. I hate blanket statements that "bully breeds can snap at anytime, yadda yadda yadda". Dog's don't just snap. Humans just don't recognize the signs as they develop. They can be very subtle, but because we aren't dogs, we don't know what is going on in their minds that changes the way they mature and interact with other dogs. I am sick and tired about owners on here saying the "bulldogs cannot be trusted, they are ticking time bombs, they can't be friends or learn to be social with other dogs." it's becoming more of an issue on this forum and to me, it's JUST as bad as BSL.

I worked very hard to socialize my dog, educate myself on his strength and how his breed interacts with other dogs, and mold his behaviour despite his genetics. He is the most social dog I have ever met. He will NOT just snap. If he one day becomes DA, it will be MY fault as his owner for not recognizing the signs that something is pissing him off.

Bulldogs are dogs first, and dogs are meant to interact with other dogs. Plain and simple. Humans create the "genetics" and genetics DO NOT rule their psyche. Just like all Asians aren't brilliant, and all black people are fast. Racism, BSL... Coincidence?

 

[maryellen]

everyone has their own opinion on DA, small yap dogs have the napolean syndrome they act like foolsaround large dogs, some dont as they are not treated like humans, and some do.
to say DA is a human error is incorrect. just because fighting dogs are worked with to get along with other dogs doesnt mean they lose their DA... its still there, and the slightest trigger can bring it out

so basically you are saying my old gsd and her 2 half brothers were DA due to human error, not genetics? all 3 dogs were raised differently yet all 3 dogs have the same DA from their fathers side.... and they all have the same temperments and mannerisms as i met all 3?

to ignore the genetics is a human flaw... it exists, and must always be remembered. those that choose to say its human error will have a serious injury/death by ignoring it...

to each his own, i personally know my dogs genetic history from the breed and i manage him accordingly... but i wont ignore it.. and some dogs dont want a pack, they dont like other dogs,and will kill other dogs if given a chance. other breeds when fighting most wont finish the fight until the other dog is dead- but a bully breed will finish until the other dog is dead..

we can agree to disagree

 

[Staben]

staben your AB doesnt like your Chi because your Chi got away with being a rude brat to the AB lol...if the Chi didnt bully the AB your AB probably would like your chi... some dogs do hold grudges- mine held a grudge for 2 years with 2 dogs he grew up with who jumped him .... it took 2 years of constant training to get him to settle down when he saw them, and now we can actually walk with those dogs finally .... when dogs bully other dogs the dog who is bullied will eventually kick the bullys ass if no one steps in to protect him..

mine will play bow to get the dog closer lol, then once the other dog is close enough and thinks my dog wants to play then my dog goes after the unsuspecting dog..

some dogs give signs, most do. there are a ffew that actually wont give any signs at all. it all depends on the dog
you can socialize a dog up the wazoo and bottom line is whatever the genetics are is what the dog will be. one of my dogs was highly socialized from 8 weeks and up. all positive interactions ... she hit 2 and that was it, full blown DA to every dog except the dogs she lived with. i met her 2 half brothers and both half brothers were DA as well so her genetics all came from her father as all 3 dogs had the same father.

I have learned a lot the last 2weeks and have been observing how Domino and Peanut interact. I believe their issue revolves around my wife. Both times they fought was when peanut laid next to my wife on my daughters bed and when peanut was heading to my wife in the bathroom. Yesterday all the dogs were fine laying near each other but with me in between. As soon as my wife got home and said Hi to all the dogs and sat down then Domino got the intense look at peanut going. About an hour before this Domino even went up to peanut, sniffed him, bowed down and wagged his tail to play.

This is telling me that Domino is being possesive with my wife somehow. Now I admit that Peanut has always been possesive with my wife and at times would growl at Domino to warn him away from her. We would always scold him for this but never fixed the issue correctly. I guess now it is Domino's turn. I believe that this is the trigger. You can see it in Dominos whole body, no one makes him more happy than my wife, he is obsessed with her.

With all this learning I can see where some things I thought were bullying from Peanuts part were actually corrections from an adult dog to a puppy that was being rough and disrespectful. Most of everything that Peanut would do to Domino to tell him to calm down Nina would also do. Domino respects Nina but still tries to throw his weight around by mouthing off to her, I have to step in and stop it.

So I cant really say that Peanut bullied Domino as if it was the norm unless you want to call humping bullying. Peanut would bark at Domino but mainly when Dominos energy level would rise and he wanted to run around like a mad dog coming very close to Nina and Peanut, scaring them. Then either Nina or Peanut would chase him away, which of course just made him come back looking for another chase I guess... bullies are stubborn and want it their way.

I am sure my opinions will change some more the more I learn, especially after the trainer comes in next week to show us what changes are needed.

 

[Steph]

I think that's a pretty bold statements that genetics cause DA. Even the most "ruthless" pitbull from the fighting pits can be rehabilitated to play with dogs. Dogs are MEANT to be in packs. They are MEANT to interact and play with each other. Socialization correctly will avoid DA. I just don't think humans know how to do it properly.

For instance, small lap dogs that were not bred to be dog aggressive, but many many are. Just like pitbulls that were bred to fight dogs can get along fine and play with others. Genetics are just a small part of the puzzle. I hate blanket statements that "bully breeds can snap at anytime, yadda yadda yadda". Dog's don't just snap. Humans just don't recognize the signs as they develop. They can be very subtle, but because we aren't dogs, we don't know what is going on in their minds that changes the way they mature and interact with other dogs. I am sick and tired about owners on here saying the "bulldogs cannot be trusted, they are ticking time bombs, they can't be friends or learn to be social with other dogs." it's becoming more of an issue on this forum and to me, it's JUST as bad as BSL.

I worked very hard to socialize my dog, educate myself on his strength and how his breed interacts with other dogs, and mold his behaviour despite his genetics. He is the most social dog I have ever met. He will NOT just snap. If he one day becomes DA, it will be MY fault as his owner for not recognizing the signs that something is pissing him off.

Bulldogs are dogs first, and dogs are meant to interact with other dogs. Plain and simple. Humans create the "genetics" and genetics DO NOT rule their psyche. Just like all Asians aren't brilliant, and all black people are fast. Racism, BSL... Coincidence?

Now THATS a bold statement and pretty ignorant if you ask me. There are many owners on this board who are excellent dog owners and trained and socialized their dogs well, yet they still turned out to be DA... Are you saying they screwed up their dogs? How can you say that for sure? Your only experience is with YOUR dog. Every dog is different.

I believe, like with everything else, DA is a mixture of Nature AND Nurture.

 

[QueenKoopa24]

I think my statement is very honest, and if my dog ever becomes DA I will take full responsibility for not recognizing the signs that he was becoming so. My statement is the opposite of ignorant. Dogs are not born DA. Puppies play with puppies, and once animals begin to mature, we need to work even harder to make sure that our dogs can still interact with others.

Yes, there are some fantastic trainers on here. That does NOT mean that they know dog psychology in and out. If it was me, I would NEVER just sit back and say, "Well, he's a bully breed so he could very well become DA, and I'll just live with that". Time and time again it has been proven that DA can be rehabilitated out of the dog. It just takes more work than we may be able to fathom. I'm with ME. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Drakoshuman]

I've owned dogs all of my life. Never had a dog, regardless of breed, that ever showed any kind of aggression. One can't help but learn and gain a better understanding of dogs the longer you're around them.

Fast forward to today. I own 3 dogs. The oldest is Britta the rottie. Well balanced with zero aggression issues. I've done nothing any different with her than I have any of my previous dogs. Do I toot my own horn for a job well done or do I credit genetics for the way she turned out? I say genetics but for the sake of argument lets just say I did something right with her.

Enter the bulldogs Drako and Keno. Brothers from back to back breedings. It's been well documented the aggression issues I've had with both dogs. After putting in a great deal of work, Drako's DA is quite manageable but the DA is still there. Keno, his DA is as extreme as any dog out there and yet I've put more work into him, with little success, as any other dog I've owned. After speaking with their breeder it turns out that of the dozen or so dogs from both litters, that my dogs, and 1 other, are the only ones that have not been PTS due to aggression issues including the sire. I will go on to say that many would have put dogs like Drako and Keno down a long time ago but my circumstances allow me to continue to work with them though the jury is still out on Keno. is this the result of management issues, or is it genetic in nature? I'm going to go with genetics on this because I find it hard to believe I could have failed both of these dogs so miserably.

As for whether or not a seemingly well balanced dog can snap at any given time? I'll defer to Paulnzeus on this one.

 

[luckysarah]

I have experienced dog aggressive puppies... not fun but I assure you that they do exist.

ETA to this post that I once inquired about buying a working dog from a breeder and specifically asked him about DA because I don't like dealing with DA dogs and I don't want them in my program.... he told me that the mother of the litter I was looking at had killed all of her litter mates at 6 weeks old. I thanked him for his honesty and moved on.

 

[luckysarah]

I also think that a lot of these extreme DA dogs that you see on shows being rescued are not cured from DA they are simply OB trained to a high level to make them street safe...

I mean I think some of them can be changed to enjoy other dogs but certainly not all and probably not the majority of them.

 

[luckysarah]

Lets look at some of the large guardian type breeds who are GENETICALLY (due to selective breeding) friendly with sheep/livestock and will protect them with their lives. Don't know about your dogs but my dogs would probably try and eat a sheep if they saw one, for sure they wouldn't protect a flock of sheep from a large wild animal....

Certainly you couldn't do this with most breeds, its GENETICS just like the DA in pitbulls. People seem to forget that this is why we have different breeds and why different breeds although from the same gene pool have different specific temperament traits... if temperament was not genetic then we would see no difference in temperament between a pug and a fila... but we do.