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Discussion Starter #1
just a question, i think it would go here, but if not, please move it to where it should be.

what constitutes a drivey dog? what are the say, allowances for a drivey dog vs a pet dog as far as redirecting, barking, etc?? not any particular breed, just dogs in general. how do you tell if a dog is all drivey, or not?
 

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drive is desire.

That is the simple answer.

Just because a dog has drive does not mean he is not a good pet. There are many forms of drive.

PREY
DEFENCE
FIGHT
BALL OR TOY
FOOD
CIVIL

Prey is the key one that most people would be familiar with.

You use the drive your dog has to train for obedience. It may be very food motivated. However, if the dog has high prey and thus high ball drive, it helps tremendously.
 

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redirecting?

what about it? It has nothing to do with drive and everything to do with compliance and obedience.

Bulldogs are so pigheaded that many times it is hard to redirect the dog to other tasks. They are very focused especially on the bite.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
so what you mean is a dog that is high drive that redirects and bites the handler is acceptable behaviior? or a drivey dog that greets humans with a growl and bark is acceptable because they are high drivey dogs?
 

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Isn't every dog drivey towards something?
That's normally what you use in training them, find out what they like and make them work for it.
 

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Mary ellen.....

your quote "so what you mean is a dog that is high drive that redirects and bites the handler is acceptable behaviior? or a drivey dog that greets humans with a growl and bark is acceptable because they are high drivey dogs?"

I don't understand your question.

Yes, some dogs are so high in drive, while working, and get so frustrated that they will redirect it towards its handler. You may have seen this with extremely driven dogs. I have seen this with some czec bred shepards and some malinois. I have such a dog. Is it acceptable? NO! He is TOO high in drive so we TRAIN him to drop down a notch and keep clear headed. Am I going to say this never happens with a few select dogs? NO. It does happen. However, I respect that frustration. I can use it. if you simply are afraid of it, and say get rid of the dog, you misinterpret the dog's drive and the reasoning behind the dog's actions. It does not stem from handler aggression. Perhaps, over confidence. I think there is a huge distiction.
It is also true that some lines DO have handler aggressive streaks, especially the czec bred imports. However, these are pure working dogs and really, they can never be considered as pets.

On a personal note, I would not own a dog without HUMAN confidence. I do not want my dogs submissive towards ANY human. I want them to be ridiculously friendly and outgoing.

A dog that greets humans with a growl............even though the handler is obviously accepting of the person, I would get rid of that shi# in a heartbeat. It shows lack of confidence. Period. I have NO heart or sympathy for ANY dog that is fear aggressive. NONE. Sorry, if I am crude.

High drive and nerves (courage and confidence) are COMPLETELY different things. Please do not confuse the two.
 

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peterC, that is excellent explanantion.. now, what about a dog that was never socialized that greets humans w/ barking/growling even if the handler is accepting of them? can training correct the undersocialization or is the dog considered a threat because there is no guarantee the dog will do a complete turnaround and keep the training and not revert back to the fearfulness?
 

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maryellen said:
peterC, that is excellent explanantion.. now, what about a dog that was never socialized that greets humans w/ barking/growling even if the handler is accepting of them? can training correct the undersocialization or is the dog considered a threat because there is no guarantee the dog will do a complete turnaround and keep the training and not revert back to the fearfulness?
There are alot of dogs out there who have recieved minimal socialization yet when they meet humans they are fine. That is called good stable nerves. The good dogs don't need all kinds of "help". I honestly think that socializatioon is over rated and that many people use it as an excuse for weak dogs. A good dog really doesn't need it because the genetics are already there.

Alot of trainers keep their dogs kenneled except for when its time for work. They don't go for trips to Petsmart, they dont' go have meet and greets at the park where they get petted and fed treats, and all that other stuff. They come out to train, they travel to different clubs and go to trials, they go once a year to the vet, thats it. Yet, these dogs are still able to have a friendly stranger approach them. Why is that? GENETICS.

Now, before anyone gets in a tizzy, I do not think dogs should be locked up and hidden their whole lives, that is not what I am saying. But many times when people say "this dog wasn't socialized, thats why its skittish" a red flag goes up for me. Its used as an excuse way too often these days and sadly not only is it the owners saying this but also the breeders and that is scary. No wonder there are so many fearful POS dogs out there today! You breed weak dogs, chances are that is what you will get...more weak dogs. If a dog is fearful or skittish I think the problems go alot deeper than lack of socialization. Lack of socialization has become a cop out for many breeders today.

Like my signature says.....A GOOD dog is not that easily ruined.....(only the weak ones are)
 

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I agee with Lisa.

Too many times on this forum, people give excuses. Well, the fact is.........the dog is this way. It does not matter how it got this way, it is this way NOW.

Socialization can do a lot of things. However, a good dog will bounce back very quickly.

My dogs do get socialized. However, they were not around any other people for the first year of their lives. I worked them and then they were home. They did not even see my own dogs. I kept them separated. Socialization was with me. I needed them to be imprinted on me and me as the reward. Now, did that tramatize them? LOL. NO. they still love people and especially kids and women.

Genetics. YOu have it or not.

Listen, as I have stated in the past, if ANY dog growled at a kid, I would go to the vet. Maybe I am old school bulldog, but I find that kind of dog extremely distasteful and unpredictable. If people choose to have such nerve bags, that is up to them. Obviously, that is why there are BSLs.
 
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