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Fist let me say that I own and love pugs, I was involved with pug specific rescue for many many years so its not a bash on the breed.

But they are similar in the fact that they lack drive, they lack instinct, and they are generally unhealthy, and sometimes unstable. Its from overbreeding and has nothing to do with the breeds involved..... its the same problem as the pug.

They are not a working dog but a dog bred for companionship and as a house pet, just like my pug.
Soo how is this different from the standard English bulldog?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Colby came from Your New Puppy, LLC. :: About Us/Home. You can look that up if you wish. I do actually have pictures of the dad, he looks a lot like colby ( or else I would be skeptical ). I have gone back and forth with if I think it's a puppy mill or just a byb. Right now I lean toward a byb created Colby and then sold him to this guy, who owns the shop. we paid just under $700 for him, we had been looking for the breed but couldn't afford the typical breed price, we went to see him one day and wound up taking him home.

If you think OEBs are like pugs in that they are being over bread and have little breed standard, or they har health issues, I would probably agree with you. BUT if you are saying they are as ugly as a pug, I wouldn't agree.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·

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I don't really think pet stores sell OEB's. So then I thought, BYB? i mean, he could even have come from a really good line and since his ear and tail were effed up, they were going to cull? Thats the sob story I was told anyways.
I got Orson at a pet store :oops: and he's OEB. Him and his sister were there and i picked him b/c he was the calmer and she was bitey.
I often wonder what ever happened to his poor sister. :cry:
 

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Thank you

What is her temperament like?
she's great!! if it wasnt for her effed up joints, she'd be near perfect (for me!).
She is very prey driven, in fact i dont know how i keep her off the cats. She is also very food driven. She didnt have any interest in toys until she was about 2 years, now she can get just as insane for a toy as Orson (and Orson is INSANE for toys, he has no prey drive tho). So she has a good variety of drive.
She was doing very well at agility, but i cant do that to her joints anymore. She's really smart too and learns easily.
She cannot play with other dogs b/c she is, well, a bully! lol. She's very bossy with other dogs and is like a bulldozer when playing, so i keep her on leash around other dogs. But she doesnt have any dog aggression or dog reactiveness. She will fight and stand up for herself if pushed tho (has only done this with Orson).
 

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But they are similar in the fact that they lack drive, they lack instinct, and they are generally unhealthy, and sometimes unstable. Its from overbreeding and has nothing to do with the breeds involved..... its the same problem as the pug.
So would you agree that your dog lacks drive, instinct and is generally unhealthy if, considering the mammut bulldog comes from the RB which is a line of OEB's if i am correct ?

To single out a whole breed by saying all of them lack drive, instinct and good health is a big call.

What other traits would you say an OEB has that a pug also has?

If you had to compare Horse to another Breed other than the OEB and RB what would it be and why ?
 

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i just found this list of EB DISEASE PREDISPOSITION, and it made me sick to my stomach. I'm posting it in this thread since it's sorta about EBs. And after i just got done reading on the thread for that poor EB puppy with the dislocated elbow, i think it's important.

http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/bbbulldogdiseasepredispositions.pdf
 

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Fist let me say that I own and love pugs, I was involved with pug specific rescue for many many years so its not a bash on the breed.

But they are similar in the fact that they lack drive, they lack instinct, and they are generally unhealthy, and sometimes unstable. Its from overbreeding and has nothing to do with the breeds involved..... its the same problem as the pug.

They are not a working dog but a dog bred for companionship and as a house pet, just like my pug.
Um correct me if I am wrong but an RB is a version of an OEB. So saying that it lacks drive and instinct really isn't accurate. In fact, I believe 2bully's dog juggs is an OEB and he is an amazing working dog. OEB's should not be anything like a pug. OEB's are so all over the board, to make a general statement like that doesn't make sense. So seeing that you have a brand new version of an RB, your basically saying your dog lack drive and instinct.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Yes OEB's are all over the board just like pugs and EB's, I am making a general statement because it can be generally applied to the breed.

Horse is not a brand new version of an RB, I have said this specifically to you many times, he is an old line of German RB, European and North American bred dogs tend to be very different in temperament (since Europe focuses more on temperament then appearance in GENERAL)

Don't twist my words to mean something they are not, I said what I said because its generally true if you disagree then disagree that's fine.

I never said they were crap I said they were similar to pugs because THEY ARE.
 

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Juggs is an exception rather than the rule in the OEB world. There are a handful of dogs that actually work/being worked like Juggs in the OEB world. The OEBs are pretty much going the way as the American Bully.
 

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Ok in regards to the mammut bull please enlighten us, what dogs created this breed ? AB X RB ? as the information online is very limited and i can only find 2 breeders in germany who both provide the exact same history article which you have provided on your blog just re-worded, the history provided by both these breeders very simply states - In the 1800's bulldogs had a firm healthy character, it then goes on to say from the pictures you can see that bulldogs had long hair. ( this hardly outlines the history of the breed.)

Please outline a more detailed explanation as to why a pug is so similar to an OEB/RB other than they lack drive, instinct and are generally un healthy.

Dont take this the wrong way i would just like to know more on the mammut bull, as well as some more reasons as to why the pug is so similar to the OEB/RB
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Isn't Horse's mother a long haired american bulldog?
Yes, but I am speaking about the mammut bulldog line, its not a new breed or a new gene.

AB's are used to increase drive in many lines of alternative bulldog, and specifically with the mammut because they can be carriers of the recessive gene that changes the coat length.
 

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Yes, but I am speaking about the mammut bulldog line, its not a new breed or a new gene.

AB's are used to increase drive in many lines of alternative bulldog, and specifically with the mammut because they can be carriers of the recessive gene that changes the coat length.
Wait what? So horses mom is a long haired AB with a mammut? Im confused.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Ok in regards to the mammut bull please enlighten us, what dogs created this breed ? AB X RB ? as the information online is very limited and i can only find 2 breeders in germany who both provide the exact same history article which you have provided on your blog just re-worded, the history provided by both these breeders very simply states - In the 1800's bulldogs had a firm healthy character, it then goes on to say from the pictures you can see that bulldogs had long hair. ( this hardly outlines the history of the breed.)

Please outline a more detailed explanation as to why a pug is so similar to an OEB/RB other than they lack drive, instinct and are generally un healthy.
Ironbulls is a famous RB line in Germany, the creator of Ironbulls is also the European representative for the RBKC. RB's can have long coats, so instead of repressing this gene he choose to express it and call the dogs produced mammoth or mammut bulldogs. There are 2 original pairs (Ironbulls Adam and Ironbulls kimberly) they are the parents of horses dad Ironbulls Hulk. It is a throw back to the 1800's when some bulldogs did have longer hair and a bulldog for colder climates.

Instead of inbreeding among the dogs they choose to out cross mainly using long haired american bulldogs, which is what horses mother was.

The history they have is with Ironbulls dogs which are working dogs.

I already outlined why I think OEBs are like pugs so I am not going to go any further, its my opinion if you don't agree then don't agree.

ETA this is horses mom (this pic is from the mammut bull site, I don't have any pictures of her as an adult but you get the idea)
 

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Ironbulls is a famous RB line in Germany, the creator of Ironbulls is also the European representative for the RBKC. RB's can have long coats, so instead of repressing this gene he choose to express it and call the dogs produced mammoth or mammut bulldogs. There are 2 original pairs (Ironbulls Adam and Ironbulls kimberly) they are the parents of horses dad Ironbulls Hulk. It is a throw back to the 1800's when some bulldogs did have longer hair and a bulldog for colder climates.

Instead of inbreeding among the dogs they choose to out cross mainly using long haired american bulldogs, which is what horses mother was.

The history they have is with Ironbulls dogs which are working dogs.

I already outlined why I think OEBs are like pugs so I am not going to go any further, its my opinion if you don't agree then don't agree.
Thank you for highlighting that, i simply did not understand what was what in regards to the mammut bull, so to summarise a mammut bull is an RB with a long coat which is a trait brought out by the creator of Ironbulls RB's.
Correct me if im wrong ?

Was his mothers parents both long haired AB's ?

I can only find one hit for a long haired american bulldog, and this suggests that it originates from AB x Collie to gain the long haired coat.
 
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