I have an English bulldog who i am interested in studding him out for pick of the litter. I see everyone saying not to breed your dog unless he has been tested for temperment, quality, genetics, STD's, you name it they want a test for it. Is an AKC purebred dog for a reputible breeder(who says its ok to breed the pup), good enough to stud this dog out to another purebred and get a litter?
BrodieBear
Did the truth hurt you so much that you have to make such clueless statements? I didn't think I was being rude to you at all and its obvious you really have no interest in learning and have already made your mind up about breeding your dog. What were the parents of your dogs OFA score again? I was pointing out things you obviosuly did not think about being the novice that you are and thought that maybe you would actually WANT to do the right thing but apparently that is not the case. Go and follow the BYB'er herd if that will make you happy at least you will have the respect of them I guess. Thank god you are an EB person and not an AB person that's all I have to say.BrodieBear said:
As far as my dogs being OEB's LMAO! Come to the working dog section and see how much like OEB's my dogs really are. An OEB wouldn't be able to get off the couch long enough to do half the physical work my dogs do. What a joke. Its obvious you haven't been on this site too long and judging by your posts in this thread alone you have no standards when it comes to breeding dogs. So typical. Only complete idiots breed for looks first, especially an "overdone" look. No wonder the EB breed is in such a sad state. The attitudes of so many of the people who own and breeding them is just attrocious. NO standards!
PS I am not a breeder. Breeding would get in the way of WORKING my dogs, plus I don't need to make $$$ off my dogs. If I ever had a litter, I would do it for ME. Pumping out puppies to fill the pet market and pad my pockets in no way interests me. I have a job and don't need to make $$ off my dogs. THANK YOU
Unfortunately breeders do make decisions in regards to quality of pups at an early age and set prices accordingly. The responsible thing to due is to have remedies available to those that pay more for a predetermined quality. In this situation a responsible remedy would be the refund of the difference between show/breeding prospect and pet quality.Lisa said:
Oh yes, I am aware that breeders do this but I do not agree with it at all. Unless there is an obvious structural fault or health issue that is apparent from a very young age, it is beyond me how any breeder can look at 7 or 8 week old puppy and say that it's breed worthy or pet quality unless they are basing their decision on looks alone. Too many people forget how important temperament is in breeding dogs. Or, what about any health issues that may pop up along the way? IMO a breeder has to have a pretty big set of balls (or just plain stupid) to be able to say to someone that their 8 week old puppy is going to be good enough to breed. Unless of course the breeder has very low standards.
BrodieBear...
Why would you start a thread asking the above question if you really didn't want to hear people's opinions? Did you actually think you could ask that question and only get the "pat on the back" and "go ahead to breed" your dog?
No you don't or you would take the advice that is being given to you. Breeding dogs that have done nothing and without knowing anything about the ancestors of said dog, or the breed in general, is NOT doing what is best for the breed no matter what way you are looking at it. If a person truly wants to better a breed they actually have parameters set and certain standards that go beyond the physcial appearance of the animal.
I agree with you. A dog needs to develope into an adult before a breeding decision can be made. I also agree with you on temperment issues as well. Your right they're are basing their quality assessment on appearance alone, Thats why I feel that they should be willing to stand behind that assessment and offer remedies in the event their assessment is wrong.Lisa said:
To Rudee, yes Lisa can come across and aggressive and abrasive (sorry Lisa, but I'm sure it isn't the first time you've heard it), especially when talking about breeding.
To let you know exactly what it is that set her off, it was most likely the statement that you bought a show-quality dog and can't show it due to an undescended testicle. To be fair, NOONE can determine at 8 weeks of age that a dog is going to be show-quality or breeding-quality. You can stack the odds in your favor by having champion dogs in the bloodline, but no dog turns out 100% champion quality puppies. If someone tells you otherwise you had better look elsewhere.
As for the problem with your pup, how old is he? I've heard they can descend quite late sometimes, so there may still be hope. Also, gentically speaking there could be something several generations back - possibly off your own dogs pedigree (such as a littermate to a grand-sire for example) that you or even your breeder may not know about. You basically wound up with a bad hand when playing genetic-poker. It happens.
To let you know exactly what it is that set her off, it was most likely the statement that you bought a show-quality dog and can't show it due to an undescended testicle. To be fair, NOONE can determine at 8 weeks of age that a dog is going to be show-quality or breeding-quality. You can stack the odds in your favor by having champion dogs in the bloodline, but no dog turns out 100% champion quality puppies. If someone tells you otherwise you had better look elsewhere.
As for the problem with your pup, how old is he? I've heard they can descend quite late sometimes, so there may still be hope. Also, gentically speaking there could be something several generations back - possibly off your own dogs pedigree (such as a littermate to a grand-sire for example) that you or even your breeder may not know about. You basically wound up with a bad hand when playing genetic-poker. It happens.
So that makes me stupid ?! Genetics are what they are ! I was simply making a statement that the parents and grandparents ect were tested and they still produced a defect which i understand can happen in any life form... I guess the thing that irritates me about Lisa is shes not even a breeder or a owner of a EB but yet she has alot to say about them and breeding. I understand she probally has alot of information about the subject but no need to be so Aggresive and hateful about it.. Like i said i think people come to the forums to learn, to help others learn and to meet other dog lovers, not to be attacked when they post.. I know i have sum questions about breeding but am hesitate to post about them due to this fact lol.. I dont care to be attacked by sumone who is not a breeder or a owner of the breed. To each there own tho. Like i said there are defaults in every life form including humans...hit16v10 said:
As for my Winkie he is a lil over 5 months and no its not going to descend from inside the tummy... so my vet says .. I do have a question about nuetering tho but will make a post about it .
Rudee, So you are saying that because I haven't taken a bitch that is in heat and put it with a male dog means my opionions on breeding don't matter? When it comes to breeding, the most important thing is the dog(s) in front of you. Not the pedigree, not how many dogs you have had copulate, or how many litters on the ground. The only way to evaluate a dog for breeding is to be familiar with the breed, have experience with them, work with them etc. How many EB's have you owned and what is your experience with them? Training, showing, competing etc?
I agree that this forum should be here to help people learn but learning should come BEFORE making the decision to breed. You obviously had already made that decision or else you wouldn't have purchased a puppy with the intent of breeding it. That is what bothers me about all the wannabe breeders on this forum. They buy a dog, many times they are a first time dog owner, or first time owner of that particular breed, yet they have already made the decision to get involved in breeding despite the fact they know very little about the breed or the bloodlines of their particular dog(s). Most of the people who come here with dreams of breeding could not differentiate between a good example and a poor one. Not because they are stupid, but because they don't have the experience. It saddens me that people have the bar set so low when it comes to breeding and have so little pride in themselves or their breeding programs. This is why so many breeds have the problems they do. (health and temperament issues) Because too many people involve themselves in breeding that have no business doing so.
Pets should be a by-product of a good breeding program, not the basis of it.
I agree that this forum should be here to help people learn but learning should come BEFORE making the decision to breed. You obviously had already made that decision or else you wouldn't have purchased a puppy with the intent of breeding it. That is what bothers me about all the wannabe breeders on this forum. They buy a dog, many times they are a first time dog owner, or first time owner of that particular breed, yet they have already made the decision to get involved in breeding despite the fact they know very little about the breed or the bloodlines of their particular dog(s). Most of the people who come here with dreams of breeding could not differentiate between a good example and a poor one. Not because they are stupid, but because they don't have the experience. It saddens me that people have the bar set so low when it comes to breeding and have so little pride in themselves or their breeding programs. This is why so many breeds have the problems they do. (health and temperament issues) Because too many people involve themselves in breeding that have no business doing so.
Pets should be a by-product of a good breeding program, not the basis of it.
Ever think that her response was related to how you worded to your post. Breeding dogs isn't breed specific and neither is this forum. She didn't call you stupid. Buying a pup solely for breeding and showing(notice you specifically put breeding first, by doing this you put it out there that was the foremost reason and showing was secondary) is what she said was stupid. See you can make dumb choices with out being dumb yourself.Rudee069 said:So that makes me stupid ?! Genetics are what they are ! I was simply making a statement that the parents and grandparents ect were tested and they still produced a defect which i understand can happen in any life form... I guess the thing that irritates me about Lisa is shes not even a breeder or a owner of a EB but yet she has alot to say about them and breeding. I understand she probally has alot of information about the subject but no need to be so Aggresive and hateful about it.. Like i said i think people come to the forums to learn, to help others learn and to meet other dog lovers, not to be attacked when they post.. I know i have sum questions about breeding but am hesitate to post about them due to this fact lol.. I dont care to be attacked by sumone who is not a breeder or a owner of the breed. To each there own tho. Like i said there are defaults in every life form including humans...hit16v10 said:
As for my Winkie he is a lil over 5 months and no its not going to descend from inside the tummy... so my vet says .. I do have a question about nuetering tho but will make a post about it .
I put breeding first becuz thats what the post was about ?!?! Go figure2bully said:Ever think that her response was related to how you worded to your post. Breeding dogs isn't breed specific and neither is this forum. She didn't call you stupid. Buying a pup solely for breeding and showing(notice you specifically put breeding first, by doing this you put it out there that was the foremost reason and showing was secondary) is what she said was stupid. See you can make dumb choices with out being dumb yourself.Rudee069 said:So that makes me stupid ?! Genetics are what they are ! I was simply making a statement that the parents and grandparents ect were tested and they still produced a defect which i understand can happen in any life form... I guess the thing that irritates me about Lisa is shes not even a breeder or a owner of a EB but yet she has alot to say about them and breeding. I understand she probally has alot of information about the subject but no need to be so Aggresive and hateful about it.. Like i said i think people come to the forums to learn, to help others learn and to meet other dog lovers, not to be attacked when they post.. I know i have sum questions about breeding but am hesitate to post about them due to this fact lol.. I dont care to be attacked by sumone who is not a breeder or a owner of the breed. To each there own tho. Like i said there are defaults in every life form including humans...hit16v10 said:
As for my Winkie he is a lil over 5 months and no its not going to descend from inside the tummy... so my vet says .. I do have a question about nuetering tho but will make a post about it .
[quote="Lisa"]Rudee, So you are saying that because I haven't taken a bitch that is in heat and put it with a male dog means my opionions on breeding don't matter? When it comes to breeding, the most important thing is the dog(s) in front of you. Not the pedigree, not how many dogs you have had copulate, or how many litters on the ground. The only way to evaluate a dog for breeding is to be familiar with the breed, have experience with them, work with them etc. How many EB's have you owned and what is your experience with them? Training, showing, competing etc?
I agree that this forum should be here to help people learn but learning should come BEFORE making the decision to breed. You obviously had already made that decision or else you wouldn't have purchased a puppy with the intent of breeding it. That is what bothers me about all the wannabe breeders on this forum. They buy a dog, many times they are a first time dog owner, or first time owner of that particular breed, yet they have already made the decision to get involved in breeding despite the fact they know very little about the breed or the bloodlines of their particular dog(s). Most of the people who come here with dreams of breeding could not differentiate between a good example and a poor one. Not because they are stupid, but because they don't have the experience. It saddens me that people have the bar set so low when it comes to breeding and have so little pride in themselves or their breeding programs. This is why so many breeds have the problems they do. (health and temperament issues) Because too many people involve themselves in breeding that have no business doing so.
Pets should be a by-product of a good breeding program, not the basis of it.[/quote]
To begin with you dont not put a Eb bitch in with a Eb male the risk are to big for your female they need to be artificially inseminated... Your dayum right i had hopes of being able to breed and show my dog is that wrong ?! As for breeding the Eb breed if my pup was capable of breeding i would have at least 2 to 3 years to be able to thourghly educate myself ... Not like i said i bought a pup and want to breed him at 6 months. I have breed rotties and shrpeis and do have sum knowledge limited but sum, think thats the reason i came to this forums was to be able to hopefully gain advice and knowledge... People like you are what make other people not want to join in on the forums.. Dont worry tho im not going anywhere I can say one thing tho this is a vicious circle were going in here and i choose not play anymore But if i have questions about working dogs Lisa i will hit ya up for sum advice Havea great day
I agree that this forum should be here to help people learn but learning should come BEFORE making the decision to breed. You obviously had already made that decision or else you wouldn't have purchased a puppy with the intent of breeding it. That is what bothers me about all the wannabe breeders on this forum. They buy a dog, many times they are a first time dog owner, or first time owner of that particular breed, yet they have already made the decision to get involved in breeding despite the fact they know very little about the breed or the bloodlines of their particular dog(s). Most of the people who come here with dreams of breeding could not differentiate between a good example and a poor one. Not because they are stupid, but because they don't have the experience. It saddens me that people have the bar set so low when it comes to breeding and have so little pride in themselves or their breeding programs. This is why so many breeds have the problems they do. (health and temperament issues) Because too many people involve themselves in breeding that have no business doing so.
Pets should be a by-product of a good breeding program, not the basis of it.[/quote]
To begin with you dont not put a Eb bitch in with a Eb male the risk are to big for your female they need to be artificially inseminated... Your dayum right i had hopes of being able to breed and show my dog is that wrong ?! As for breeding the Eb breed if my pup was capable of breeding i would have at least 2 to 3 years to be able to thourghly educate myself ... Not like i said i bought a pup and want to breed him at 6 months. I have breed rotties and shrpeis and do have sum knowledge limited but sum, think thats the reason i came to this forums was to be able to hopefully gain advice and knowledge... People like you are what make other people not want to join in on the forums.. Dont worry tho im not going anywhere
I can say one thing tho this is a vicious circle were going in here and i choose not play anymore But if i have questions about working dogs Lisa i will hit ya up for sum advice Havea great day
You didn't have to tell me that. Such a shame that the breed is such a genetic nightmare that it can't even reproduce naturally. Very, very sad.
Before leaving this thread would you kindly explain to us what your criteria was for selecting breeding dogs back then? What measuring sticks did you use to determine what was breed worthy and what wasn't? Who was holding that measuring stick? How many dogs did you wash out from breeding?
By putting your intentions in a list one can reasonably ascertain that the order you put it in, is the order of preference. One should always make their lists in order of preference. The first being the most important, the last being the least important. So taking how you worded your post almost all had the conclusion that you wanted to breed first and foremost, everything else was secondary. Breeding isn't frowned upon here. We are passionate that those wishing to breed are responsible in that endeavor. Read the stickies at the top of the forum page and you'll see what its going to take to be a breeder that will be respected here.Rudee069 said:
The genetics part has nothing to do with it really. Its the show-quality pup. NO PUP is show quality until it is shown and does well. Until then it is just a puppy. Saying you bought a show-quality pup and then getting mad because it isn't showable (or even if it simply didn't do well) is a fact of life. IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. Thats the gamble you take when you buy ANY DOG, ANYWHERE, and hope to show it. You don't know 100% how it will turn out, and there will always be some element of risk.Rudee069 said:
This is something that people usually learn the hard way and have trouble accepting.
Simple answer to this quandry is this;
If you have to come to an internet forum to ask and confirm things about your breed of choice and whether or not your own dog is breedworthy, YOU ARE NOT READY TO BREED.
Go back, take your time, learn some more, and then maybe in 4 or 5 years you *might* be ready to drop a litter RESPONSIBLY and PROPERLY.
- Anthony
If you have to come to an internet forum to ask and confirm things about your breed of choice and whether or not your own dog is breedworthy, YOU ARE NOT READY TO BREED.
Go back, take your time, learn some more, and then maybe in 4 or 5 years you *might* be ready to drop a litter RESPONSIBLY and PROPERLY.
- Anthony
Big_Ant said:
LOL! I thought I was the only one that thought that!!!!
Prepare to feel the wrath de Lisa, Ant!
You also noticed that?2bully said:
Hell, if we don't slap the Future Backyard Breeders Of America on the back & congratulate them we are rude assholes who should be banned from the forum. :roll:
Lisa, you've written some great posts.
And ANYONE who buys a puppy with the sole purpose of breeding it & making some "extra cash" needs to get off their ass & get a job. You don't want a pet, you want something that will pay your car note & dogs are not here for that purpose!
And to Big Ant.........I've missed you!
Big Ant, thank you for the compliment. I am glad there are a few people who appreciate my point of view.Cinder said:Big_Ant said:
LOL! I thought I was the only one that thought that!!!!
Prepare to feel the wrath de Lisa, Ant!
Cinder, I taken no offence to Ant's little comment about the takedown. It doesn't matter to me "how" Smooch achieved it as long as she didn't get hurt of course. She came in fast and got a full mouth bite...no bad lessons were learned. The fact she took down the helper AND did everything else right is a nice little boost for her confidence. That is what is most important to me and could not have come at a better time in her training. I do think it's cool you took the time to watch us though!
Thanks!Lisa said:Big Ant, thank you for the compliment. I am glad there are a few people who appreciate my point of view.Cinder said:Big_Ant said:
LOL! I thought I was the only one that thought that!!!!
Prepare to feel the wrath de Lisa, Ant!
Cinder, I taken no offence to Ant's little comment about the takedown. It doesn't matter to me "how" Smooch achieved it as long as she didn't get hurt of course. She came in fast and got a full mouth bite...no bad lessons were learned. The fact she took down the helper AND did everything else right is a nice little boost for her confidence. That is what is most important to me and could not have come at a better time in her training. I do think it's cool you took the time to watch us though!
I think you're teaching the smoochie smooch the leg sweep prior to biting.
I still giggle at how freakin' QUIET she is. Such a lady.
I just saw this topic and felt I must chim in on the comments regarding Lisa being rude. I don't see this to be true. I find her to be very direct and to the point when it comes to serious issues like this. Sometimes it takes that approach with people to get the message across.
Lisa, I think your words are well spoken and intelligent. I've known you on this board for over 2 years now and you have always held yourself to be true to what you say. I have learned a lot from you myself. People should keep an open mind to what you have to say. They only get offended if they don't see things the way you do.
Keep up the good work of educating!!!!!
Lisa, I think your words are well spoken and intelligent. I've known you on this board for over 2 years now and you have always held yourself to be true to what you say. I have learned a lot from you myself. People should keep an open mind to what you have to say. They only get offended if they don't see things the way you do.
Keep up the good work of educating!!!!!
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
