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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How do I go about finding a local Club? We don't have a dog yet - but would be interested in finding a club to work/train at when we do. I know we 'could' train him ourselves at home - but would prefer to do it with people who know what they are doing so we do it correctly. I don't know of anyone in our area who does bite work, weight pulling etc, so I don't have a starting point of where to look. We are planning on an RB this fall or early winter. We are in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. Any advice would be wonderful!

Thanks!
 

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here you go.

http://members.tripod.com/~MAWDA/

DVG schutzhund club.

Let me know what they say when they hear you want to work a Renaissance Bulldog.

First thing they will ask is their bloodlines and if any of its forfathers have any protection titles, especially a sch title.

Good luck. You are going to need it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: here you go.

PeterC said:
http://members.tripod.com/~MAWDA/

DVG schutzhund club.

Let me know what they say when they hear you want to work a Renaissance Bulldog.

First thing they will ask is their bloodlines and if any of its forfathers have any protection titles, especially a sch title.

Good luck. You are going to need it.
Ya know - Im not really out to earn titles with an RB. More to give him something to do and for me to do with him. If in the process, he earns some titles - thats great - but not nessecary. If I wanted a dog to hold down the couch, I'de get another EB

Thanks for the link though.
 

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You will find that most people working RB's work them in ring because they are shorter. They can still bite a sleeve but they are stronger on legs. Try to find a club that works in french or belgium ring, it would suit them more and you will likely have a harder time training one in SchH, but don't rule it out if you have a SchH club nearby.

Are you getting your RB afterall? I'm driving down in a few weeks to get my first male down in Tennessee. Can't wait for the trip 8)
 

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redbull.......are you kidding?

I know the ring clubs in Canada. They will NOT work a dog if it does not have the potential to title. Why would a decoy put all that sweat and tears into a dog that has no potential? Because he wants to be a bite dummy? No way.

I know in Eastern Canada, you can go to a private training club for profit and they will do it, but not a NARA or CRA club (non profit), unless you can prove your dog has the goods. Not just stupid drive, but clear headed.

I am sure some can do it, but RING is not about just biting. It is about UTLIMATE CONTROL AND ENDURANCE. I believe RB are weak in those two areas. Hell, even most shepards bred from WORKING lines cannot do ring.

Ring is tough. Very tough. If I wanted to do ring, I would get a ODEN, marley bred AB.......nothing else. If I wanted to do sch, I would get a Bronx, Coal, Mikie bred dogs.....nothing else. If I wanted PSA ABs, I would go visit Lucillano Oliva.......nothing else.

HOWEVER.......I encouage anyone to work their dogs. Remember. Not just bite. OB OB OB OB. OB first.......then BITE. Some dogs may never get to bite. No control.......no bite. bites are a reward for good OB. THAT is why you don't see too many bulldogs in any work. Right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
redbull said:
You will find that most people working RB's work them in ring because they are shorter. They can still bite a sleeve but they are stronger on legs. Try to find a club that works in french or belgium ring, it would suit them more and you will likely have a harder time training one in SchH, but don't rule it out if you have a SchH club nearby.

Are you getting your RB afterall? I'm driving down in a few weeks to get my first male down in Tennessee. Can't wait for the trip 8)
We should know about our finances next week - and if all goes well, we will be going to see a litter and put a deposit down (pups are due in 2 weeks) on one end of August.

Are you getting your pup from Troy (Titan)? If so, which pup did you pick? Im in love with the male with the black lip.
~~~
The closest club I know about is a SchH club in Madison - about 45 min from me (thanks for the link PeterC). I did find an agility club locally so that may be an option too. I just want SOMETHING for our pup (when he's older) to do. If he's real drivey and not dog agressive (which the RB's typically are not) and once his OB is down pat (gotta have that before anyhting else)- I may look into fly ball (jump height for the whole team is based on the shortest dog so a shorter RB would be alright). Just looking for options right now.

But yes, we ARE going to get a RB sooner or later. Preferable sooner then later. :lol: I've wanted one of these guys since January.
 

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Yes I am getting a male from Troy, not the one with the black lip though, but the one with the large white-head and dark brindle body. You probably know the one I am talking about lol, he's got the largest head of the litter and the only one with an all white head. I am then getting a female from a breeder who constantly works his dog (Loki) in ring and is working on trialing him for his brevet, and is VERY close. He has his scoresheet and is very close to being prepared to trial, has everything down that needs to be done but is finishing him off well before trialing this year. He works Loki consistently at Red Star Presa's down in the US. You may have heard of this club. The trainer I will be working with here in Canada has actually decoyed for RB's at Red Star Presa's and really liked those dogs. He told the handler to pursue ring with his RB.

Wayne has been working OB on Loki for a couple years now and has put a lot of time and effort into training with him...TONS of hard work. You probably know of the breeder. it's Patriot Bulldogs. He is big on working his dogs and placing his dogs in working homes whenever he can. I've also recently been speaking with Jody along with both breeders and if all goes well with these dogs I am getting (health, temperment, etc), I will be joining them as part of the RBKC, and they encourage a breeding between these two bloodlines as it will be a very nice + close line-breeding, should be a good mix of Titan's bullier dogs with the less-bully type that Patriot has. I'm hoping it will create a good well-balanced cross between the two, and it should. Considering they share many dogs in their ped and it is a close line-breeding, this should produce some very nice dogs indeed, just what I would personally look for in a bulldog, as well as add consistency to what is being produced.

I am also hoping that starting the dog's imprinting and training from an early age will also give me an edge at eventually placing a title on at least one of them in the program. I will be training them in Belgian Ring, and would be aiming for a Cat IV and then hopefully at least a BR3 with one of them. It will take a lot of work but I think it is possible with these guys. They definately have the drives and spirit for it, and other trainers agree. It's just that most people do not have the patience to go far with their bulldogs. Peter is right though about the OB...with these dogs it will take extra time and effort to get OB down. I was told that it was hard work just to get a clean out, because of the amount of drive in Loki, but it is possible and he has achieved that with him now...after investing a lot of time and effort.

I am assuming you are getting an RB out of Warrior Bulldogs? I know they are expecting a litter in the close future if I am not mistaken.



ps: Peter - is the OB that is necessary for SchH not more difficult? It was my understanding that the tracking and OB portions of SchH is much more involved and a lot more difficult than in ring?
 

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Tinkerbell - if you want to do protection work with your RB but also want to do more of a well-rounded routine with him/her....I think the following would be good goals:

Work it in some PP work, get the dog's BST or GDT and then partake in Iron Dog competitions, which now also include IDWP (weight pull).

IDT3 is a triathlon, or IDT5 - pentathlon, there are many areas where you can compete in these tourneys.

http://www.irondog.biz/index.html

http://p6.hostingprod.com/@irondog.biz/rules.html


Hope that helps. There's lots out there to get involved with! Even if it is just for fun! Remember that these dogs really love to work, and enjoying the sport(s) as well should be your first priority. :D

I am not solely looking to just title the dog, I would be happy competing in IDT..they are not elite competitions by any means but are a good all-around way to work and compete with your dog.
 

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Ring is tough. Very tough. If I wanted to do ring, I would get a ODEN, marley bred AB.......nothing else. If I wanted to do sch, I would get a Bronx, Coal, Mikie bred dogs.....nothing else. If I wanted PSA ABs, I would go visit Lucillano Oliva.......nothing else.
Ok Peter, I understand your theory and that you want to stack your odds in finding a suitable canidate for whatever venue you chose to compete in by getting offspring out of dogs that are proven. However, isn't a good dog a good dog no matter what venue they are being trained in? I mean, I train in Schuthzund, but if my dogs are good dogs should they not be able to compete in Ring ( French, Belgiun, or Mondio) or PSA as well? Or at least have what it takes themselves to do it? Never mind my own capabilities as a trainer. Aren't we looking for the same things anyways in a dog? Good balance of drives and of course good nerve? If for some reason I had dogs only cut out for Schutzhund, but not the other "sports", I would have to take a real hard look at the dogs in front of me and perhaps consider relegating them to them to pet status or depending on the problem, keep working them but NEVER breed a dog with an obvious and major weakness. I feel the same if it was vice versa as well. IMO, if a dog is a washout in one protection sport, it is a washout in another. If a person trains hard and with alot of pressure and various distractions, situations etc then you should know enough about your dog and whether or not it is weak or strong. I would fully expect any of my SCH trained/titled dogs, present or future, to be able to go through the rigors of the other "sports" as well. If for whatever reason I felt they were unable to (not because of a physical limitation like size, but a mental issue) I would never breed them to begin with. Could you please elaborate on why you feel you would only feel comfortable with certain bloodlines for certain "sports"? For example, what exactly do you think a dog like Coal or Mikie would lack for Ring or PSA?

You will find that most people working RB's work them in ring because they are shorter. They can still bite a sleeve but they are stronger on legs.
If the dog is that good it should be able to do Schutzhund as well. There is no reason why a RB could not bite a sleeve with the same gusto it can bite the legs. You say because they are shorter the legs are easier? I have been to Chadde's site and have seen pics of his dogs jumping metre high jumps just like they do in Schutzhund. Don't you think if a dog can jump that high that they could launch high enough up to engage a sleeve? If someone told me they were training on the legs because their dog was "stronger" there that would be a huge red flag for me. A good dog should target wherever I teach it to. A dog who is able to jump a metre in the air should surely be able to target the arm and not just the leg.
 

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That's true, I've seen RB's on sleeves as well to be honest. I meant to ask Chello why he recommended ring to the RB handler down at the Red Star training club. I actually think now it was because the person may not have been as interested in the tracking portion. Those dogs do have springs for legs. I was actually interesting in working one in SchH because noone else has, they all work them in FR.
 

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well Lisa, I see it like this......

As you said, a good dog is a good dog. However, if I was LOOKING for a new dog, I would like to stack my odds by going to proven dogs in that venue and not wasting time on a crap shoot. Why? because the guys before you did all the work. Why waste their efforts. They have proven that lines. I am not here to PROVE anything and I have no lines of my own. I just want to play with my dogs. I just don't want to look like an idiot in my club with the crappiest dog.

I think Ring requires a much much faster dog. The leg is not presented and in fact at ring II level the decoys can "push" the dog away with their hands in addtion to esquives.

I don't know Coal and Mikie. I have never worked them. However, I have seen many sch and ring dogs get blown off with PSA pressure (pressure of strange distractions and decoy pressure) Each sport highlights specific needs. Ring emphasizes mental endurance (a routine can last 45 minutes) and agility, Schutzhund OB, PSA courage under distractions.
Until you work that dog in a certain venue, you just don't know.

I think the mindset of the trial decoys in each sport says much.

Ring - Decoy's job is to fail the dog.......take points away. Each step he gets on the dog, more points for the decoy. It is almost a game, a very serious and tough game.

Schutzhund - work consistently to show the outlook of the dog for the judge. Almost emotionless. Work consistently. His intent is not to fail or pass the dog.

PSA - the decoys' job is to make the dog go into total avoidance. Do anything CONSISTANTLY and safely to destroy the dog. Pressure. In fact, the decoys will run over your dog if it hesitates to engage.

I might add, no sport is superior, just different, depending on what you really enjoy. I like PP aspects of PSA and the technical beauty of leg work. I love the imprinting and setting the bite of schutzhund. I guess I love it all. LOL.
 

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When initially testing a dog, or looking for that right dog / balance in a dog, how can you tell or know how to spot the proper balance between a dog that is too drivey/hard and one that you can still get a clean out with while at the same time not being blown off by PSA pressure?

A super hard dog will not be easily blown off, yet is not the easiest to handle when it comes to OB, yet a dog that is not as hard may be easier to recall and release from the bite - but it may also release faster under pressure. If a dog is just starting out, what would you do to test for this balance and how would you be able to judge this balance properly with a new dog?
 

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you don't .
you have to go by what the parents were like. A pup is a gamble.

You can impove your odds by setting up with a good club. That is the key to this puzzle. A good club.

PS. I would rather fail 10x and fail because of not outing than my dog being run off the field due to lack of courage (seen this many many times at a tial). If that happened, that dog would not come home with me. It just learned that it can fail. I deal with many many issues with my boy. I deal with them all because of three things. One he loves kids. Two, he is very fast for a 75lb dog w/good wind. Three, hardest dog I have ever owned and he has PROVEN his ability in the real world.
 

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where did you get your boy from?

I know what you mean by it almost being an issue that these dogs love kids so much. I have kids on the street petting my boy and he loves it of course, but their parents don't - and sometimes will start screaming at their kids....just bound to cause problems. Most dogs will see that adult as a threat LOL. My boy will just sieze up and stare when that happens, and that's when I start walking in the opposite direction with him lol. If only people knew better...you don't go screaming towards a dog or around a strange dog.
 

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Funny, most people think my dog are cute, even Chuck man. Ice looks much more feminine so she is cool with everyone. She is a bit more boxerish looking so everyone loves her.

Chucky is from Lucillano Oliva's yard. He is out of Q and Aries (Q daughter). He kept all the pups from that litter except one. Chucky. He was my first pick. All I can say is ridiculous. Very high maintenance. I think this was his experiment to replace Q. I think he still has all the dogs from that litter in his club. This is not a dog most sport people would enjoy. :lol:
 
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