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Discussion Starter #1
What is your opinion on the importance of a dogs pedigree when it is 6 or 7 gens back, how the genetics influance the outcome of a breeding. I do believe whats up close say the 1st 3 generations really is the most important and has an influence on how the pups come out. But dogs in the 5th/6th and so on they can also influence this, if there were some crappy ones then their genes could have been passed down through the generations without the carriers expressing them. So you could end up with a poor quality pup or a pup that has a certain fault that hasn't been seen in 6 gens.

It also depends on how much linebreeding and inbreeding took place a dog that is in the 6th generation appearing say 8 times would multiply that dogs percentage contribution instead of just being 1.5625%. It would also increase the likelyhood of thats dogs traits continuing to be expressed throughout the generations and even in the dogs who did not express the traits could still be carriers and down the line his traits show up through descendents.

This is what is called a throwback when a dog takes the traits of an ancestor far back in their pedigree even though the other dogs in the pedigree did not. I have experienced this, I have a male who takes after a dog in his 7th/8th/9th generation even though this line is pretty much totally bred away from. His dam is only a 16th of this line as it was never bred back to and although the male was a very good rep of the breed and a quality dog he wasn't put at stud and his owner only bred within his program from what I read so therefore it was never made popular. With her only being a 16th and never being bred to another dog carrying this line (since it is extremely rare and almost has almost faded out completly) it would be unlikely her pups would ever come out with this dogs traits. Correct? But in her last litter one male came out a striking resemblence of this dog, even though he is so far back. But his genes came through and throughout the years the dogs must have carried them, trickling down to his dam who carried them also and gave him to him and those genes dominated. Most of the rest of the litter takes after appearance, type, temperament and personality of the sire with a few traits from her, one is a dead ringer for the sire, the others just have a lot of his looks/traits, another looks like the grandsire and acts a bit like both parents then their is this one odd ball taking after a dog all the back in his 7th.

How do these things really work? Is it because his dam was carrying the genes from a dog appearing in her 6th even though she has tight linebreeding on top and more linebreeding on bottom to a line in relation to the top? Has anyone else had this experience and what do you think the likelyhood of it happening are? None of the pups from her other litters turned out like this, they usually take after the sire, some are a blend of both, and others take after her side but never the dog in her 6th.

I'll post pics later, gotta upload em.
 

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I didn't read the whole post but I know from other breeders that you cannot expect a throwback to produce himself in offspring.

You have to rely on genotype and not phenotype.

I dunno if that's related to your post though, but where it comes to using throwbacks in a breeding program, it's hard to tell the consistency of what they will throw, and most of the time will not throw themselves. Most of the time it's a rarity and something that happens from time to time. If you want to see how it would produce, you would have to look at the rest of his/her littermates for a better idea.
 

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You will be surprised, genetics can be tricky. Traits can be carried but not shown and may possibly show up way down the line in another litter, even when the rest of the litter is showing the traits you expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thx for replies. Yeah I wouldn't expect a reproduction of himself, he's just a rarity and would probably not produce a litter like himself.

I got the pics uploaded.


This is a dog known as Going Light Barney who is baiscally Corvino/Heinzl

This is the male




The dogs in his pedigree don't take anything after Barney and he doesn't appear himself until 7th, 8th & 9th generations.

I just find it very weird how genetics can push their way through undetected (not expressed in phenotype) and then pop up not and again.
 
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