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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get bullies use to this?

I have been trying a wide range of collars, choke collars, pinch collars.. Everything and nothing is working to keep Toby under control when we see other dogs on walks.

I can't change routes.. Everywhere we go we see other dogs.. He does a high pitched bark, snarles, jumps in the air... And nothing I have used so far has been able to keep all four feet on the ground. I want to him tolerate just seeing other dogs in public. Not near them, not anything.. Just to see them from 15-20ft or more away.

I just want him to get use to this before we go to the trainers in February...

Any suggestions?
 

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If you are/were using a prong collar was it on properly? It may need links taken out . Here's a article on the way to fit in on. [urlhttp://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm[/url]

I use to use a Gentle Leader on Legend for working on heel. He hates the thing now and just blows right through it. Gemyni I have started using it on her. I lured her with treats is how I got her started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The trainer we were going to fitted the prong for us.. And its always on the same.. He jus ignores it completely to try and charge afte other dogs... He has never and could never get away from me (at 5'0 and 115lbs I can easily handle him being 90lbs) and I don't plan on ever letting that happen to find out if he wants to attack because from watching his attactions, thats clearly what he has his mind set on.

I took him for a bit of a walk until he felt comfortable with it enough for me to make the corrections I needed without resisting and bucking like a wild horse. After that, I walked by a house that has out of control dogs behind a privacy fence that he makes a scene about to see if I could correct the wrong behavior. The first time.. Not to good.. The second time (about 5 minutes later) I got him to walk by with a little bit of a whine and he sat on the sidewalk by the fence.

I think the halti gives me a lot more control over his head.. which is where I need it.. With the prong or anything else he snaps at my hands to let him go or he grabs the leash and tugs to get it out of my hands.. He's on a mission when it comes to other dogs.. When he went to go at my hands the first time past I could easily jerk him away from that and get him under control..

I just need some tips on this halti thing to steer his mind away from bucking and flipping out when he hears or sees other dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
When he sees or hears them is mind is blank to everything... He LIVES to play fetch and I've tried using tennis balls, squeek toys, treats.. everything... I just need some pointers until our trainer rehabs from her surgery.. She's the best around and I won't attempt using anyone else.. Just from talking to other trainers, they want my money more than trying to help him or if they want to help, they want to use negative reenforcements and I'm not for that at all..

My only other option is sending him away for training but I wouldn't trust anyone not to do anything to him if I'm not present.. The guy I'm referring to breeds and trains GSDs.. I've never gotten any referrals or heard anything about him dealing with aggression and what not.. He's a total lush with me and the immediate family (mine and my boyfriends) but anyone outside of that or any other dog he goes nuts..
 

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we tried a head halti dog hated it and my girl friend felt bad for him so it didnt last, we now have the kidn the goes across the chest and behind the legs. but heel is your best bet thats what we try and work on. use the harness when going around people and need a little more controll
 

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Maxi did excellent with the Halti. It worked for her. I've yet to have any success with it on any of the foster dogs I've had. Anytime I've used a prong collar, it's worked. I've never dealt with a VERY dog aggressive dog though, so I don't have that experience, but when I've snapped that collar, I got 100% attention. Are you using it right? It almost sounds like you're not, or you're not assertive enough with the correction. I'm not criticizing, just giving opinion.
 

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If it is that he only acts this way when he sees other dog and walks fine until he does see a dog then maybe you need to make him summisive to other dog and let him/her know it is not ok to attack/go after with such intensity. if this is something you think is what you want to do let me know
 

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Tank hated his halti at first too. It is the BEST leader though. We got success when we used a short leash - just enough for him to stay by your side with.
That way, a soon as he starts in the wrong direction, it stops him.
Any collar or harness was useless with Tank, as he would ignore them till he bled/passed out from lack of oxygen.
A halti is difficult for short snouted dogs though. Make sure to get a small enough size thatit doesn;t slip off his muzzle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Towmater said:
If it is that he only acts this way when he sees other dog and walks fine until he does see a dog then maybe you need to make him summisive to other dog and let him/her know it is not ok to attack/go after with such intensity. if this is something you think is what you want to do let me know
After I posted this, I went home around 1-2am and my mom brought her dog back from her sisters (we moved and my parents stayed in an apartment with a no pet policy and took their dog to her sisters). The minute Toby walked up the steps to the house from the sidewalk he started flipping out because he could smell her dog. He wanted to kill him. Theres no doubt about that! And it made me so mad because we've had her dog for 5 years so oviously Toby grew up with him and I could always trust them together. The next day I made him be submissive to my mothers dog. I put a muzzle on him (just in case) and made him lay on his back while my mothers dog sniffed him. Toby's 90lbs and I'm 124 but 5'0 so I had to almost lay ontop of him. Its been about a week now but after two days he is fine again... He lets my mothers dog hump him out of dominance and actually enjoys every minute of it and you can tell by the look on his face! So I think that will be one of the things I do.. But I'm definitely going to continue with the head halti.. It gives me complete control of his head and what direction he goes. And I know I'm using the prong right because he'll act up when we see rabbits, cats, or squirrels and he'll stop with one pop. But when he sees other dogs.. TOTALLY different story.
 

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Ok It doesn't really matter what kind of collar you use, You have to get him to pay attention to you and not the dog. CC has MAJOR dog issues.
Now this is how I've gotten CC to start listening to me when she see's hear or thinks there is another dog around. (If a dog walks past the shop window it sounds like a dog fight is going on in there!) so I do feel you on this one. First you need to teach him to look at you. Start with no distractions. Every once in a while (at least 5 times a day) Tell him "at me" and when he looks up at you give him something yummy. tell him good boy. Every time you say it you must treat him as soon as he looks. After he gets it make him hold the command a little longer. I suggest you stick with the prong collar, make sure you pop it fast when you want his attention. after he mastered the "At me" command practice it where Tobi can hear another Dog, WITH TREATS, Tell him the command, and pop the collar when he doesnt listen, get in front of him so he has to pay attention, not as easy as you might think. put the treat (make sure it's something he likes) and say the command over agian. Keep trying everyday intill it works. It will work, you might have to grab his bottem jaw with your hand and make him look at you, but it will work. Don't give up, you have to be more stubbern than him. I use moo-moo q's for CC when I'm training her (dried beef lung). Good luck.
 

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He snaps at your hand when he wants to get away to get to another dog? Wow. Perhaps a basket muzzle (so he can pant, bark and get treats for rewards when he behaves) is a good tool to use as well. JUST IN CASE. You being so small, would never be able to get him out of a fight.
 

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CC's mom said it right, you have to get Toby to pay attention to you.
Orson is exactly the same as Toby when we go on walks and i was
using the prong, but the way he acts never got any better.
I hated punishing him when he was already in a panic state, seems like
it just adds to the hate of other dogs. If he gets in a frenzy over seeing a dog, what good is it for me to get mad and punish him...just makes seeing
dogs a very negative thing. The point is to change that negative experience into a postive one.

Once you've got the "at me" down at home, take him out on walk and everytime he looks back at you, praise him and give him a treat.
Now, what do you do if you see another dog coming...for the time being either turn around and walk the other way or get up into someone's yard to avoid the oncoming dog. Distance is your friend!
While waiting for the other dog to go by, distract Toby by feeding him treats or tossing his ball to him, if he starts to turn towards dog or you see
Toby notice the dog, immediatly get his attention back to you with food or toy.

Distraction is the key, also make seeing another dog something positive by giving treats or giving him his toy everytime he hears or sees a dog.

Orson gets in that same mind-frame when he sees a dog, blocks everything out...even me jerking on his prong. So now, before he can
even react to dog I squeek his squeeky ball (he loooooves balls!) and shove treats at him. Then, hopefully, that state of mind is avoided.
He has been doing alot better using this reward method
and i have even taken his prong off and am using a harness. :D
 
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