[Steph]

Whats wrong with using a rope?

Obviously the owners are poor, it does not mean that they care less for the dog.
We see dogs in muzzles all the time in North America, in fact its the law here that all pitbull type dogs MUST be muzzled.

Its funny how someone doesn't want to be judged for breed choice but will freely judge someone from another country for using rope instead of a leash lol. The bully kutta is an ancient breed and the dog pictured is a beautiful rare specimen. Nothing in that picture indicates that the dog is being mistreated.

Tosas are beautiful dogs and I have had the pleasure of meeting a few in person, although very aloof, beautiful mastiffs. Tosa's, bully kuttas and fila's are all active guard dogs, working dogs, natural guardians, these breeds do not need to be taught how to guard as they are still actively working as guard dogs in their country of origin and there is nothing wrong with a working dog working. These breeds may not wear bows or live on a couch but they are beautiful natural breeds.

These breeds get ruined once North America starts importing them.

Why are there 2 ropes?

And I have to disagree with the whole north America ruins breeds things. I'm sure there are many that mistreated in their home countries as well.

 

[forever_pit]

I frequently work my dogs on more than one line.
I must be a terrible owner eh?

Actually, Cairo was in a very similar situation today. Tied to a tree by a 15ft long line that was connected to his flat collar and had a six foot lead attached to his prong. He was also wearing a muzzle.
Guess I am going to dog owner hell.

You are being very judgmental over one picture that shows a dog with two ropes. I honestly don't get it.
What is so terrible about two ropes? You think the dog is handled like this all the time? You think this one picture shows you the span of this dog's entire life? Is it possible that this dog is about to work or train in some capacity?

 

[Drakoshuman]

I frequently work my dogs on more than one line.
I must be a terrible owner eh?

Actually, Cairo was in a very similar situation today. Tied to a tree by a 15ft long line that was connected to his flat collar and had a six foot lead attached to his prong. He was also wearing a muzzle.
Guess I am going to dog owner hell.

You are being very judgmental over one picture that shows a dog with two ropes. I honestly don't get it.
What is so terrible about two ropes? You think the dog is handled like this all the time? You think this one picture shows you the span of this dog's entire life? Is it possible that this dog is about to work or train in some capacity?

Only if you're leading your dogs into slaughter.

 

[Lisa]

Don't fall for the whole Bully Kutta thing. It's a scam..marketing ploy. The dogs are nothing special.

Think about it....in Islamic countries dogs are considered mongrels. They are to Muslims as rats are to North Americans. Muslims believe that dogs are dirty and do not even allow them to live in their homes. Most practicing Muslims do not keep dogs as pets. They are considered the low life of animals.

Bully Kutta's are touted as "guard dogs" and "gladiators" yet Islamic religion states that all animals are to be treated kindly or set free? It goes against the religion to fight animals against each other for entertainment. If someone were to be attacked and killed by a dog, can you imagine the outcry and consequences in a country like Pakistan where society in general thinks so poorly of these animals and where the laws are much less forgiving?

In the Islmaic world, dogs are basically "wild". They live outside and serve no real purpose. Who, in a country like Pakistan would BUY a dog? So, imagine what the breeding standards would be. What is their measuring stick? Their breeding ethics are probably close to non existent. The Bully Kutta is a mongrel that was created and marketed by some smart Muslim who saw an opportunity to make money. An opportunity to cash in by selling their mutts to people in 1st world countries with more money than brains. People who want a "rare", "ancient", breed of "dog" they can brag to their friends about.

The Bully Kutta is a marketing scam period.

 

[Steph]

I frequently work my dogs on more than one line.
I must be a terrible owner eh?

Actually, Cairo was in a very similar situation today. Tied to a tree by a 15ft long line that was connected to his flat collar and had a six foot lead attached to his prong. He was also wearing a muzzle.
Guess I am going to dog owner hell.

You are being very judgmental over one picture that shows a dog with two ropes. I honestly don't get it.
What is so terrible about two ropes? You think the dog is handled like this all the time? You think this one picture shows you the span of this dog's entire life? Is it possible that this dog is about to work or train in some capacity?

Dont care about the muzzle and was merely wondering why there was two ropes.

Also, like Lisa said, Muslims don't think of dogs the same way we do here. So I highly highly doubt that dog is treated with any type of respect or kindness. It's just the way it is.

But who knows.

 

[luckysarah]

I disagree about the bully kutta, they are used as guard dogs and when you live in a poor country you need guard dogs.

Because of the influx of dog fighting in Pakistan the bully kutta is actually on the verge of extinction, they are breeding terriers into them to make them faster and more agile, so its not a breed on the incline but quite the opposite.

These dogs are not sold to North America, in fact I don't think there is 1 in North America. So if they are marketing them to sell them they are doing a pretty crap job.

Like many breeds who still work they can look different, its no different then canary island Presa's who can vary in appearance quite dramatically from what we are used to seeing in North America. The dogs who can work are reproduced and the rest are culled, that's how it works and that's why there can be a dramatic appearance change form generation to generation.

There are many breeds that hail from Muslim countries (with muslim being the top religion in the world per capita) the Afghan hound/ridgeback/basenji/saluki come to mind but there are many others, the muslim religion is across Africa and the middle east, there are many many breeds that come from these regions and are still actively used in those regions as hunting/guard dogs. So your theory does not make sense.

 

[Rokka]

The only thing i can add is that Dog Fighting is prevalent in Muslim countries, having lived in 3 for at least a year in each case i can state that from experience, it is very popular and common.

whilst they may view the dogs as vermin, they still use them to fight and gambling is rife, maybe the devout muslims do not engage in such practices, but dont think its not common.

Also, i can echo, that the Bull & Mastiff breeds are very much a common sight as guard dogs and hunting dogs in these countries. I had ample opportunity to watch such dogs in organised fights whilst abroad - obviously declined such an invitation - but in the 2.5 yrs i was away i was invited by 3 separate individuals that i had acquainted to partake in the 'event' and it would have been more had i attended.

 

[Chris_UK]

Theres quite a few Bully Kutta fight clips knocking about the internet.

The whole concept is a bit of a show, with a carnival-like atmosphere.

The dogs are sent charging together and then they basically play fight, trying to mount the other without really doing any damage.

The dogs seem to be looked after reasonably well on the whole, their bark seems worse than their bite and the whole thing is just a bit of a spectacle for the locals, something small communities get involved in.

I see no harm in it since the dogs do not fight hard and it seems are rarely injured.

 

[ColbysMomma]

Dont care about the muzzle and was merely wondering why there was two ropes.

Also, like Lisa said, Muslims don't think of dogs the same way we do here. So I highly highly doubt that dog is treated with any type of respect or kindness. It's just the way it is.

But who knows.

I would guess the dog was tied to 2 ropes because it was 230 lbs, and that guy looks kinda small. Just my own observation.

 

[Bones088]

entertainment and gambling is the reason for organized dog fighting. there is no good reason for it. as for historical or "street" fighting the answer is the same..there was and is no good reason for it.

 

[Lisa]

Even if the fighting and "guarding" does go on in these countries, what kind of breeding standards and ethics are they going to have over there? What is their measuring stick? "Guarding" probably consists of hanging out around their shack or tent looking scary because if someone's dog actually attacked someone what would the consequences be? They probably don't even keep track of lineage or know who their dogs are breeding to.

I see no reason to be impressed by these animals.

 

[JUNIORVICK]

Im sorry to say when i was a kid ( 9 years old ) i was the caregiver for a fighting dog.. i was young and never was "allowed" ( thank god ) to see my dog fight. But i remember the day when my dog didnt come back home.. it was a very very sad day for me...

regardless of what name you put on it...dogs being forced to fight is wrong. If you think about it any other way then your disturbed individual.

 

[Steph]

Im sorry to say when i was a kid ( 9 years old ) i was the caregiver for a fighting dog.. i was young and never was "allowed" ( thank god ) to see my dog fight. But i remember the day when my dog didnt come back home.. it was a very very sad day for me...

regardless of what name you put on it...dogs being forced to fight is wrong. If you think about it any other way then your disturbed individual.

MMM they aren't really being forced. They enjoy it. HOWEVER children enjoy biting people, doesn't mean we let them do.

If this was a private thread, I can guarantee we would be able to get more accurate information on it.

Point is, these dogs were developed to fight. Fight bears, bulls, other dogs, even mice. Had that idea never come up in someones crazy head back in the day, we would not have these breeds. Period. Every part about them from their heads to their toes was designed to make them better fighters. But, I do think the breed is very valuable in many way other than fighting, so its nice to see them in PP and SchH and agility and so on. I think we need to accept the past, but move on. It happened, it shouldnt anymore. Lets find other ways these dogs can be valuable to us (many people have).

Unfortunately, I don't think thats going to happen.

 

[gazar]

MMM they aren't really being forced. They enjoy it. HOWEVER children enjoy biting people, doesn't mean we let them do.

However, they DO NOT enjoy getting bites back.

I also have seen dogs hang back and cower if they thought another dog was going to hurt them.
They did not want an involvement in any type of altercation.

 

[Steph]

However, they DO NOT enjoy getting bites back.

I also have seen dogs hang back and cower if they thought another dog was going to hurt them.
They did not want an involvement in any type of altercation.

Yes this is true. That is not right.

 

[2bully]

However, they DO NOT enjoy getting bites back.

I also have seen dogs hang back and cower if they thought another dog was going to hurt them.
They did not want an involvement in any type of altercation.

Those dogs would have been washed from a historical dogman's yard. Just like if I had a dog that didn't/couldn't work in man work I would wash the dog out.

 

[K7Lab]

Sorry gotta comment on this tread, I'm an opinionated so and so.

Steph said ... they(dogs) aren't really being forced. They enjoy it.

Actually the dogs are forced and trained to fight from an early age. Many dogs are destroyed along the way. Here in Ireland many unwanted crossbreed dogs are prey for the pits in training.

Have you ever seen a dog after being discarded from the fighting rings? It's usually terrified and in really bad health. I don't really see how these dogs 'enjoy it'. There are usually no winners. Even if a dog wins a load of fights they will still be put up for more fights til they get a beating. That's the reason i think the owners don't love dogs period.

I don't think it's natural for a dog to kill another yet these people put the dogs in a position where they must kill or be killed.

Usually these fighting rings keep the dogs in terrible conditions without adequate food and water.

Basically it's pain and suffering for the dogs so perverted humans can get there kicks and have a gamble.

 

[Steph]

Sorry gotta comment on this tread, I'm an opinionated so and so.



Actually the dogs are forced and trained to fight from an early age. Many dogs are destroyed along the way. Here in Ireland many unwanted crossbreed dogs are prey for the pits in training.

Have you ever seen a dog after being discarded from the fighting rings? It's usually terrified and in really bad health. I don't really see how these dogs 'enjoy it'. There are usually no winners. Even if a dog wins a load of fights they will still be put up for more fights til they get a beating. That's the reason i think the owners don't love dogs period.

I don't think it's natural for a dog to kill another yet these people put the dogs in a position where they must kill or be killed.

Usually these fighting rings keep the dogs in terrible conditions without adequate food and water.

Basically it's pain and suffering for the dogs so perverted humans can get there kicks and have a gamble.

I agree with some of this. However, how come multiple bully households have to crate and rotate? Because their dogs fight. And won't stop fighting. The owners aren't forcing them, in fact, the owners would prefer them not to fight. So how come they do it?

 

[K7Lab]

Its hard to generalize on this subject but i'll give my opinion anyways

Any dog will fight in the right/wrong circumstances. When the pack order is uncertain dogs will fight for position.

I'd turn around your question and ask why don't some bully breeds want to fight with each other in peoples homes?

I really think it comes down to the owners knowledge of the dogs temperaments. Some dogs need to be separated and some dogs can live together. But dogs will act differently depending on who trains them and who gives them discipline.

If dogs want to fight in the home they do so because the owner hasn't stopped the build up to the fight. He or she doesn't know the signs that a dog will fight and the dogs won't listen to the owners when they get into fight drive.

If the dogs are well disciplined and getting proper mental and physical exercise and care there is less chance they will fight.

People let the dogs play fight so eventually a real fight will break out. Simple as that. I think you can nip many dog problems in the bud before major problems occur.

 

[forever_pit]

K7lab, I think you misunderstand or do not respect the power of genetics. I can tell you that there is a difference between a DA bulldog and a DA lab. In my experience, it is easier to move that lab to a point where I can let it out with large packs of dogs in a much shorter span of time. Why? Because they fight for a reason other than the fight itself.

That said, I have had a Pit Bull break out of his crate and into another crate to fight with that dog. That's desire. Had nothing to do with pack structure or not being trained, had everything to do with heart. I have watched dogs lean back on their chain so that it is lax, wait for another dog to get close enough, and then grab hold of that dog and rip it apart.

That said, when you talk about bulldogs and DA and fight drive I think you also need to look at how that dog acts during man work as well as on larger livestock. Gigz is the first dog I have owned who actually enjoys fighting, there is a difference in his DA that I have not had in my personal dogs before. However, he will also fight a bull and gets off on fighting the decoy. IMO, it is all connected.