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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, im normally good at this but my Pit lady has me stumped right now.

The macho Moto is very good, cries to get out and shows great progress. He is well on his way to being 100% trained. At 5 months hes doing just fine.

Kaya on the otherhand is a nightmare. She has decided that making teeny tiny pees all over the place is order of the day and im running low on ideas to persuade her otherwise. Im not into smacking them, only now have I resorted to sitting her down in front of them and speaking firmly to her on the ill conceived locations of her little puddles. Im sure she does it to spite sometimes!

Does anyone have any new ideas, tricks or techniques to try and dissuade my little lady from piddling and pooping where and when she wants.

The irony is there are no two more regularly walked or excercised dogs. We stay right beside the park and they go out so often its unreal. The problem seems to be purely mental as opposed to physically needing to pee, she simply WANTS to!!
 

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maybe try keeping her leash belted to you whenever she's in the house? That way you can catch her in the act.
 

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Knomad said:
Ok, im normally good at this but my Pit lady has me stumped right now.

The macho Moto is very good, cries to get out and shows great progress. He is well on his way to being 100% trained. At 5 months hes doing just fine.

Kaya on the otherhand is a nightmare. She has decided that making teeny tiny pees all over the place is order of the day and im running low on ideas to persuade her otherwise. Im not into smacking them, only now have I resorted to sitting her down in front of them and speaking firmly to her on the ill conceived locations of her little puddles. Im sure she does it to spite sometimes!

Does anyone have any new ideas, tricks or techniques to try and dissuade my little lady from piddling and pooping where and when she wants.

The irony is there are no two more regularly walked or excercised dogs. We stay right beside the park and they go out so often its unreal. The problem seems to be purely mental as opposed to physically needing to pee, she simply WANTS to!!
Frequent small pees might indicate a UTI. Speak to your vet.

Sitting her down infront of her pee and speaking firmly to her is about as effective as someone speaking another language to you LOUDLY and SLOWLY.

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Its more a BIW (because I want) than a UTI. She sleeps at night, sometimes from 11pm till 11pm next day without so much as a dribble.

She CAN go as long as she pleases without making puddles...but with Kaya dearest can and WANT are two very different matters! She simply wants to make pee on the floor I feel, sometimes because ive shut a door and she isnt pleased,. sometimes because I dont feed her table scraps when she mooches.

To rule it out though I will take them both this week and have a poo and urine test done on both of them to see that everything is ok.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I took them both to the vet today with stool and urine samples for each of them just to be sure, id rather be safe than leave a problem growing.

She does have vaginitis, common for her age and we have a course of anitbiotics for that. We will know about the UTI once the tests are done on their samples probably tomorrow.

As I said I dont think its the case as she can hold damn well when it pleases her...pleasing her is the problem. Todays a clasic example> We walked to the vets and back, lovely day for it. All in about 50 minutes walking...

We get back home and within 10 minutes she makes a teeny tiny not worth making poop and a little pee puddle on the floor......why..why...why for goodness sake, im sure she does it just to be annoying!!
 

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It is anthropomorphic of you to think that this dog is doing this to spite you or to prove a point. Let that go. View her as a dog, not as some vengeful human in a dog suit, and houstraining will become a lot less difficult. If she is soiling in the house then she doesn't understand yet that she should not. Until such time she should not be left unsupervised. If she has an opportunity to soil it's your fault not hers. If you catch her in the act scoop her up and take her outside. Scolding might just as easily teach her to hide where she pees as anything else. Teach her a potty word (for instance first thing after waking her bladder is full - take her to the appropriate place, use the potty word and by repetition of this action, create a conditioned response (like pavlov's dogs) so that ultimately she'll potty on command).

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice.

I do all of those things already but Kaya isnt responding very well, shes the first dog ive had be so damn stubborn on the issue. The male Moto is excellent when he needs he will goto the door and let me know.

Spite may seem an odd word but dogs can exhibit behaviors for a variety of reasons. Spite may be mispleading what I mean I think she does it because she feels the reaction to it is satisfactory. When im not doing what she wants me to do, she finds reward in having me run around after her cleaning up the mess. In that sense I think shes spiting me.

Shes an intelligent dog, show her something once tell her its good and she will repea it for the reward....

Too smart not to know by now that house toilets are frowned upon. I am 100% convinced her behavior now is choice as opposed to nature.

For example, when we eat dinner and they mooch and dont stop I send them from the kitchen and close the door.....when we finish and open the door almost without fail she will have left a tiny puddle in front of the living room door as a reward before retreating upstairs.

She appears to be using her little gifts to persuade me not to close the doors or to keep her in sight all the time.

Im generally good at training dogs but I have to admit the lady has me stumped, her behavior is very curious and not at all what id consider nromal for a dog in house training dog.
Thats why im seeking some new clever technique to try persuade her otherwise.

As an example, if I say Vamos (they are bilingual) and take them out side, both dogs will immediately go out, drop and pee no messing around, then they will wander back in again job done all happy.
With Moto no problem, if he needs again he will let me know....with princess however it really depends on her mood, seriously if you dont do what she wants she will make you a small gift and seemingly simply because she wants you to have to clean it up!

Odd I know, but as I said im sure she does it through choice and not need.
 

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hm..

Could she is marking? I know my female will pee little amounts every few feet during our walk, and she's been
spayed since 4 months old so it's not to attract a mate. She may have some sort of excitable bladder, when some
dogs get excited they piddle a little.

Not to humanize dogs, but I believe alot of dogs are spiteful. Even cats. Ever go on vacation and leave your pet
with someone? Not only will they purposely ignore you for days after you get home, but they'll destroy things of
yours and usually go to the bathroom everywhere.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I did consider this but the odd thing is she doesnt do it outside. Outside she will drop the mother of all pees and ge it all out in one shot generally, maybe on the way there and back a couple of little ones.

In house however she just seems to do it when the mood takes her. Ive tried finding some structure to her actions and it does to me seem to be a purely mental choice matter as opposed to anything else. In which case im perplexed as to how I should go about persuading her otherwise. Tried and tested methods dont seem to work with my little madam, shes a will unto herself when it comes to leaving gifts around.

Sometimes she will make a poop thats the size of dime, I will just stumble across it and look at her, she looks at me watching intently as if to say "how you like that big guy" and I wonder at the gift in sheer frustration. Just cant get her figured out at all on this!

Did you ever have a pup and wonder whos training who? When she does it she watches me as I discover them, intently, fascinatedly as if to gauge whats going on in my head, its like some odd game of poop/puddle and study to her.
 

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Well I've given the benefit of my years of puppy rearing. Good luck.

Paula
 

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Do you use crates? If not, I highly recommend them..they are a great tool for potty training.
Dogs cannot be reliably housetrained if they are given too much freedom...they need to be corrected at the exact moment of the accident..not after the fact. They do not understand the punishment after the fact. If they get away with accidents some of the time and are only corrected some of the time..you are confusing the dog..that only teaches them to hide from you. Besides the crate, leashing the dog to you while in the house is another great way..that way you catch them every time they start to potty and can correct them, and take them to the apprpriate place to potty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I dont use crates, never liked them and I have never found a genuine need for them myself.

My sister is using them for her Siberians, but my dogs are lightyears ahead in training terms :D
 

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I dont use crates, never liked them and I have never found a genuine need for them myself.

My sister is using them for her Siberians, but my dogs are lightyears ahead in training terms
Why do you not like crates? They are perfectly humane and not only can the help with training, they also ensure your dogs safety while you are away..they are also a requirement for shipping dogs and for dogs at shows or working events.

As far as your comment on your dogs being lightyears ahead of your sisters in training terms...not sure why you feel that applies in this situation..you claim your female is not potty trained..people offered advice on how to train..and now you come back stating you have the most well trained dogs ever..hmm...

Out of curiosity..how much experience have you had training dogs...bull breeds in particular? For someone who claims to be full of training knowledge, it surprises me you have been unable to potty train your female.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Carrie said:
I dont use crates, never liked them and I have never found a genuine need for them myself.

My sister is using them for her Siberians, but my dogs are lightyears ahead in training terms
Why do you not like crates? They are perfectly humane and not only can the help with training, they also ensure your dogs safety while you are away..they are also a requirement for shipping dogs and for dogs at shows or working events.

As far as your comment on your dogs being lightyears ahead of your sisters in training terms...not sure why you feel that applies in this situation..you claim your female is not potty trained..people offered advice on how to train..and now you come back stating you have the most well trained dogs ever..hmm...

Out of curiosity..how much experience have you had training dogs...bull breeds in particular? For someone who claims to be full of training knowledge, it surprises me you have been unable to potty train your female.
Why should I need a crate when a dog can be trained well without it. I dont like them because I dont like sticking a dog in a crate when I dont need to do it. Humane or not I dont LIKE them and I wont use them simply for that reason because I have no need to do so. Each to their own.
How much experience have I had, a lifetime, is that enough? Combined with good study, good reading, good advice and practice its just fine.

Next up, TRAINING is far more than just potty training so consider that before making trite comments please. I freely admit i have ONE dog who is problematic to house train. But then I have a second male who perfect, could walk off the lead beside a busy road if I chose to do so, will come to call in a park with 15 dogs running around him. Will sit and stay as long as I so choose to have him do so, can fetch and retrieve not only at the moment of throwing but also sit and then retrieve on command.
Now consider that this dog is also only 5 months old and you can see that I have more than enough training knowledge.

Add to the fact that outside her odd potty behavior my bitch has EXACTLY the same training level as the he does and ill warrent you wont find very many dogs at that age even close to their level of training. All done with non aggresion methods and trained DUAL without separation.

They arent only lightyears ahead of hers but ahead of almost every single dog I know at that age.

The difference between myself and some people is that when I do encounter a situation which methods are not working for, I seek further advice suggestion and tips from others who might have run across a similar thing or have another method.

Sadly sometimes all you get is rudenss and trite comment in response. Thankfully thats not always the case.
 

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"Why should I need a crate when a dog can be trained well without it."

Cuz she's not getting trained without it. One of the things crating makes much easier is potty training because each time she gets to soil in the house you're training her to soil in the house as effectively as training her not to soil in the house.

Look - take your ego out of training this dog. She's not doing it to spite you, we're not trying to show you up. Approach training with humility and an open mind and it becomes so much clearer and more logical and straightforward.

So far you've said;

my dog is not housetrained
I think it's spite.
thanks for your advice but I'm not taking it even though Iasked because I am sure I know why my dog is not housetrained.
no I won't crate because I don't think it's necessary.
by the way my dog is pissing in the house - how do I fix that? Any ideas?


Ya okay then.
Paula
 

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I don't want to be involved in a pi**ing match and rarely ever do I...ask anyone on this forum...they will tell you I am nothing but nice, helpful and knowledgable to the people who are legitimately asking for help. I was never rude or "trite" with you, until you were that way with me.

For the record...I was just offering you potty training advice...the methods I described are fail free if done correctly and consistantly. You can choose to try them..or not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Carrie said:
I don't want to be involved in a pi**ing match and rarely ever do I...ask anyone on this forum...they will tell you I am nothing but nice, helpful and knowledgable to the people who are legitimately asking for help. I was never rude or "trite" with you, until you were that way with me.

For the record...I was just offering you potty training advice...the methods I described are fail free if done correctly and consistantly. You can choose to try them..or not.
At which point was I trite or rude to you? I did not post anything that was in any way intended to be trite or rude and I had no idea anything I wrote would have been taken that way.

I stated I dont like crates myself, i didnt say that in any way critical to you or your methods!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
PaulaEdwina said:
"Why should I need a crate when a dog can be trained well without it."

Cuz she's not getting trained without it. One of the things crating makes much easier is potty training because each time she gets to soil in the house you're training her to soil in the house as effectively as training her not to soil in the house.

Look - take your ego out of training this dog. She's not doing it to spite you, we're not trying to show you up. Approach training with humility and an open mind and it becomes so much clearer and more logical and straightforward.

So far you've said;

my dog is not housetrained
I think it's spite.
thanks for your advice but I'm not taking it even though Iasked because I am sure I know why my dog is not housetrained.
no I won't crate because I don't think it's necessary.
by the way my dog is pissing in the house - how do I fix that? Any ideas?


Ya okay then.
Paula
First of all, if you wish to be rude, dont answer at all. Im weary of it. Second I didnt take your methods not because of spite or because I didnt appreciate the comments but simply because they werent of any use.

Everything you suggested are the basics of housetraining which I have long since tried. The point is that normal methods are NOT WORKING with her very well and I was wondering if anyone had any new, different or alternates.

Instead you march in, lecture me on dog basics and then get shirty when I dont actually need those particular suggestons.

As for crate training. You dont start crate training a 5 month old dog just because housebreaking is a little slow. Crate training should begin with the breeder and be carried on all the way through. Even if it wasnt late in the day, I have already POLITELYstated I do not like crate training its not a method I presonally choose or have had need for. Whats you problem with that?

"Approach training with humility and an open mind"

What is that supposed to mean?

For anyone whos interested in giving serious advice and not behaving like this, im happy to listen. Really im wondering if anyone has any new or different methods I can try, ive been through the rule book on basics and the best methods but shes not going so well.
 

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"Approach training with humility and an open mind"

Means exactly that. I have found that when we take failure personally (like the dog is pissing in the house to spite me) ego gets in the way of training. It colors our perception of what is motivating the behavior, and it makes it hard for us to learn from others. I'm just trying to share with you some of my own experiences in dog training. I find for myself that I'm continually learning from other trainers and other trainer's experiences - see my signature? It's something Peter C said once that I found inspiriational and borrowed it because it was useful.

So I'm not being 'shirty' whatever that means. I thought I was being helpful. But hey - backing away slowly and not making eye contact dude.

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ok both of you. Look through this thread and please tell me at which point I was ever rude or disrespectful to either of you.

I wasnt. if you like Ill point out a post from each of you in which you took to being rather unsavoury in your responses in my direction however.

Enough said on this, I have no idea what goes on in the world sometimes.
 
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