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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am not starting this topic to start trouble. I have seen a lot of byb dogs and a lot of proffessonal breed dogs. A lot of people on here rip the byb's new asses but never hear anything bad about the kennels etc. The reason of me bringing this up is most of the muntant looking dogs I see are from kennels.THese being the 100 pound apbt's , lowriders, etc. They are charging an arm and leg for these dogs that look horrid and half are probally mutts. I am not saying every kennel is this way but it seems like a lot are. To prove my point go to yahoo or google and do a search for an apbt pup. Now to get at the byb point of view. My dog and several other dogs on the forum and people I know are breed from byb's. They seem to look better and more standered than most i can find in kennels. They are a 1/4 of the price on top of that. That being said is probally one the reasons byb's get so much support. I am not saying every kennel is bad but on the same hand i am not saying every byb is bad thats just my opinion.I know everyone on here has opinions of thier own so whats yours with theese point of views being stated? Also lets be civil about this and not start a bunch of trouble and get this thread locked and people fighting.
 

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I don't think that just because a person has a website with a kennel name and uses registered dogs that this exemps them from backyard breeder status.

IMO if you are doing nothing to improve the breed, meaning health testing, conscience of temperament and working ability, aware of the pedigrees and know about the dogs in the backgrounds of your breeding stock, you are a backyard breeder, regardless of the fancy website or papered dogs you are using. Backyard breeders don't stop at the guy down the street who has unregistered dogs or has has breeding dogs that are registered but doesn't actually have a kennel name. In fact alot of the breeders I come across on the web who have the fancy website with pretty pictures I would classify as BYB's also and I would tell them so. Backyard breeding is a term, nothing more. It has nothing to do with were the dogs are bred! In fact, even the best breeders mate their dogs in the backyard!

The simple fact is, if you do nothing with your dogs besides breed and feed, and don't have a good understanding of all the issues within your breed (health, temperament etc) you are a backyard breeder! I don't care if your dogs are "registered" (all that is, is a proof of the lineage of your dog, it doesn't equate to quality) or if you have a fancy website or pretty add in Dog World magazine or if you have the nicest kennels around to house your dogs (some people have more money than brains)... None of that impresses me, and it surely wouldn't exempt a person from backyard breeder status in my book!

Champ and Jas- What do you mean by "professional" breeder?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can agree with what your opnions. They are good and make a lot of sense. As for your question i was meaning like a kennel{gotti razors edge etc} Also on your opinions then I would say that gotti is the biggest byb in the country. Sorry if I offend anybody bye saying that but most of the dogs i have seen from gotti are horrid. I was also just trying to state that I think a lot of theese big mutant ass dogs are sold is people cant hardly find none on the web that arent. Now there are good kennels out there too who still breed within standered.
 

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Thanks for anwering but since I am not well educated in the APBT breed, could you tell me what it is about Gotti and RE that would make them a "professional" breeder in your book?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

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Champ_and_jas said:
I think gotti is a joke. These links will show ya why I state my opinion.

http://www.southcoastgottiline.com/males.htm

http://www.gottiline.com/GOTTIPAGE.html

http://www.gottylinepits.com/males.htm


Imo I belive a proffesional breeder should do health tests. etc . I belive they shoudl have tittled dogs in thier kennel or ped and I believe they should be in standered
So, if you think Gotti is a joke, why did you refer to them as "professionals" in your previous post? Is it because they breed as their main source of income?

I don't know, but anyone who is breeding without any real goals, standards, or ethics (which it seems that you are implying that about Gotti?) I don't see how they could be considered "professional"? But I guess if its a main source of income, then technically that would be the case?

I think this topic can be pretty subjective.

One persons idea of a quality breeder would be another persons idea of a puppy miller. It really all comes down to standards. Some people just don't have the bar set too high.
 

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I can just tell by looking at those poor dogs that they aren't going to live a long healthy life. I see hip/joint, and heart problems in their future. Poor babies.

I wish people like that never sold one deformed pup, they should be put in chains themselves.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I wasnt refering to them quite as proffesionals I was just throwing some big names of breeding out there. I think they may do a temperment test but I doubt they do health test and the dogs look like mutants. Block head I dont know a lot about razors edge But I do think they do apropiate testing and the biggest part of thier dogs I have saw have been in decent standered. Isnt Roscoe an RE lisa from thier AB line?
 

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I understand the topic of this thread, and Im going to try to put my point of view out there, not to be slammed or to be accused of being a byb all over again, but to express my viewpoints.

"Professional breeders" are breeders who complete EVERY step of the cycle for breeding. Titleing both parents the best they can be, every health step taken in the book prior to breeding. Culling the pups who may not be worthy.Breeding only to pass along perfect genes.

BYb's usually do not health test to the max. Most or alot are not titled or even shown for that matter. ALOT(not all) are in it to breed over and over again to make a quick buck, refusing to take notice to what they are oing to their bitch, and the breed in general. NOT being responsible for any imperfect dog that happens to be whelped, they just sell it and change their phone numbers.

Dont know much about the Gotti lines, but in defense of the RE lines, RE in itself IS NOT byb. It has taken that name through all the idiots out there that had purchased an RE dog, and in its awe, turned around and re bred it over and over, thus, making a bunch of freak monsters. Dav eis trying awefully hard to re create the once great RE line that originally existed long ago, to bring dignity back to the name. I know, I have one. Dixie is RE, AND generally resembles his original old school line that was once so respected.

Botttem line, if there were no BYbs and just professional breeders out there, the dog population would be greatly reduced-HOWEVER- nobody out there would be able to afford a "pet" anymore either.

Its a vicious circle out there, and it will never end. NOTHING anyone does will bring it to a close. There will always be your opinions of professional breeders verses BYbs.

I myself is considered a byb. My dog was not health tested nor titled before her breeding. I have 7 beautiful puppies from her. I have 1 with an over bite, definatly big and noticable. I will try to use this dog for obed or wp, and hopefully we will succeed. He will however never be worthy of conformation. You tell me......If he accels at earning great titles from another sport, is he NOT WORTHY of breeeding???I also have another so slow to develop, she is so unsteady on her legs, until we know which path she will take, she is staying. I also need a dog for conformation, that leaves us with keeping 3 out o fher litter.Something i expected???No, but something I was willing to do from the beginning. I have one sold to a show home in Ohio, good call there. I have one going to a guys home who lost his dog after 10 years to cancer, no kids, wife, his dogs even eat at the table with him, but withholding the papers. Another going to a pet home, with a contract.The other 2 are still for sale.

This litter has great ptoential from 5 of the 7 born. They were byb. I am awefully proud to have this litter. And I guarantee they are prolly the best looking byb pups out there right now!!
I dont want to start anything, dont want any slams from thie either, just ttrying to get a point across about the original post. There are some wonderful pups being byb all the time, I think it is a MORALS thing amongst the breeders. What morals they have and hold, because w/out morals, we have trash!
 

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Champ_and_jas said:
I wasnt refering to them quite as proffesionals I was just throwing some big names of breeding out there. I think they may do a temperment test but I doubt they do health test and the dogs look like mutants. Block head I dont know a lot about razors edge But I do think they do apropiate testing and the biggest part of thier dogs I have saw have been in decent standered. Isnt Roscoe an RE lisa from thier AB line?
No, Rosco is not from that kennel. He is from Razors Edge but it is a totally different breeder and he only breeds AB's, not APBT's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Care said:
I can just tell by looking at those poor dogs that they aren't going to live a long healthy life. I see hip/joint, and heart problems in their future. Poor babies.

I wish people like that never sold one deformed pup, they should be put in chains themselves.

Thats what I am implying on some of the bigger names in kennel. They claim to be and a lot of people see them as professionals but the dogs look sad.I have saw average Joes take dogs that are in standered breed em and have better looking dogs then these big kennels for the same price. The thing is nither of is probally doing testing. I am just trying to say I see average joes making better looking dogs then these bigname kennels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
sajoseph sees were I'm getting. I am just trying to say that There are average people breeding better looking and better standered dogs then a lot of the big kennell's or so called professionall breeders. The thing I am getting at is a lot of the so called proffessional breeders is no more then a byb.
 

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Champ_and_jas said:
sajoseph sees were I'm getting. I am just trying to say that There are average people breeding better looking and better standered dogs then a lot of the big kennell's or so called professionall breeders. The thing I am getting at is a lot of the so called proffessional breeders is no more then a byb.
I agree 100% but I still don't condone backyard breeding.

I totally understand where you are coming from though.

Good post. Hopefully we can continue sharing our opinions without this getting ugly! This could be a very imformative thread to someone who has yet to have any opinions on this matter. Hopefully some people come here, read all the replies from both sides and can come out of it with some education and knowledge.
 

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All I can say is I have seen some nice dogs come from a one time breeding of a good male and a good female..I have seen alot of guinea pigs come from some kennels..

That is all..I out of it :wink: ..

e
 

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Erica said:
All I can say is I have seen some nice dogs come from a one time breeding of a good male and a good female..I have seen alot of guinea pigs come from some kennels..

That is all..I out of it :wink: ..

e
I agree.

Some of the best dogs produced have come from people who only bred a litter or 2 in their lives. Such people often have such high standards that they end up washing out most of the dogs they own from breeding because they feel they don't cut the mustard. They finally get lucky once or twice, do a breeding and end up producing some very nice dogs. Many times these type of people don't even have a website or even a kennel name.

The key to breeding dogs is having good dogs and knowing what a good dog is. Also important is understanding genetics and being aware of the positives and negatives of the dogs in the pedigree of your potential breeding animals.

Just because someone has a "kennel" and has been breeding dogs for years, doesn't necessarily mean they know what a good dog is and defintiely doesn't mean they are producing good dogs.
 

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What's a BYB or a puppy miller is all just opinion, and you know how that goes.
Some people have higher standards then others and sadly some people don't have any standards at all.
Just because somebody has a kennel and seems professional doesn't mean he is better than the guy down the road that has only two dogs and peddles them in the local paper.
It all comes down to what's acceptable for you, just don't expect me to agree with it. :wink:
 
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