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That video was great! Those dogs are so impressive. There was one dog that jumped nearly up to the decoys head! Was that a Malinois? Chris, was that you in the suit?

Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I don't know much about the sport. What was with the silly string and water balloons? Was that supposed to mimic an attack of sorts on the handler?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
You got questions!

Kasco writes: That video was great! Those dogs are so impressive.

Fraize writes: I am glad that you enjoyed it!

Kasco writes: There was one dog that jumped nearly up to the decoys head! Was that a Malinois?

Fraize writes: Yes, that’s a Malinois! You have a good eye on some poor video quality! That is BOOYEAH he is owned by my apprentice Megan Welch.

Kasco writes: Chris, was that you in the suit?

Fraize writes: Nope! That was my apprentice decoy Mike Connors. He is about to start his own training business. I think he is ready! Don’t you?

Kasco writes: Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I don't know much about the sport.

Fraize writes: No worries! I love intelligent questions and when I have time answer them! I love to teach and learn more all the time. That can only happen when folks ask questions! There are NO silly questions!

Kasco writes: What was with the silly string and water balloons? Was that supposed to mimic an attack of sorts on the handler?

Fraize writes: In civil agitation (when the decoy has little or no protection) the dog must show a “display” that keeps the “bad guy” at bay. This civil display is typically done with a decoy or agitator shown a very large threat and lots of movement. In the advanced level of our tournaments we drop the movement and aggression of the “bad guy” to a level that folks and dogs aren’t used to.

Often, real life threats are as simple as a “bad guy” standing still and saying something in a whisper like…”Give me your money.” The dog should be able (at a high level of training) to “Turn on” his civil display without a huge amount of agitation from the “bad guy”.

The water balloons are there (and thrown) in an attempt to distract the dog from his job. A dog that doesn’t real understand or want to do their job will often look at the water balloons as a way to get out of doing their job. The smallest distraction will send them into avoidance behavior. Our trials and tournaments are designed to test the training, handling and genetics of the personal protection or police service dog.

The silly string was a great way for us to simulate the use of mace on the handler. Weapons are not always guns, knives or sticks.

I hope to meet you (and many other board members) at the WPBTCA Nationals September 8th thru 10th!

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
 

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Re: sad

Chris Fraize said:
Pitbullroyalty,

You are misinformed. With a screen name like pit bull roaylty I assume you know alot and have done much with the breed. Could you please list your credentials so I can have a basis for your comments? Thanks in advance.

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
Nelson and Peter, I agree with your posts and agree that maybe the APBT can be protection trained by a professional
experienced trainer. Chris, I apoligize if I offended you in my "pit bulls shouldn't be protection trained" comments. I
actually think your dogs are awesome. I only have a little over 5 years experience with pit bulls (hey I am only 24) but
I am learning from some of this best with experience up to 50 years with the breed. They recommend never teaching
a pit bull to have any aggression towards humans, this includes controlled aggression in the form of protection work.
They site that since they were never meant to bite humans, why allow them? I agree, but maybe in a highly controlled
matter.. I don't know. My opinion is bouncing back and forth. I see what you're saying but I trust their opinions also.
 

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Great video Chris! Yours are always great to watch!

One piece of advice though......you need to post more, especially in the training section! Your training experience would be valued thats for sure. (at least by some of us ;) )

Hope to train with you sometime. Too bad it didn't happen this summer . Maybe sometime soon? Chello is always raving about your training! Can't wait to check out your dogs in person.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Nice!

Hi Lisa,

I had hoped to see you guys at the DSO. What happened? I was soooooo close!
Chello and Tracey are da bomb (lol). I would love to come up and train with you guys some time! Always looking for pointers!

You should come down and support the Working Pit Bull Nationals! We could put you up and do some training! Whats a 7 hour drive between friends?

When do I get a cool banner at the bottom of my posts like you do? Those are AWESOME!

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
 

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PBR and all

PBR wrote
I only have a little over 5 years experience with pit bulls (hey I am only 24) but I am learning from some of this best with experience up to 50 years with the breed.
I've been into dog training since I was 12 years old. Got seriously into competitive dog training in 1984. We're in the year 2006 and I still have never met a trainer who didn't think he/she was the best and that their word is "gospel". And I've spoken and/or met trainers from Europe (Canary Islands, Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland and Germany), Center and South America and Canada.

Experience has taught me that best ones have major accomplishments to back up their phylosophy or points of view. PBR, I'll advise you take an objective view of those trainers you're learning from. If they have the same accomplishments or dogs with the same training (or better) than what Chris Fraize shows here (which I doubt judging by their biased remarks), ...... then by all means take their teachings as true. If they've never competed in anything challenging, then it should be time that you broaden your horizons. It'll be fair for both you and your dogs. Take care, happy training.
 

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Re: Nice!

Chris Fraize said:
Hi Lisa,

I had hoped to see you guys at the DSO. What happened? I was soooooo close!
Chello and Tracey are da bomb (lol). I would love to come up and train with you guys some time! Always looking for pointers!

You should come down and support the Working Pit Bull Nationals! We could put you up and do some training! Whats a 7 hour drive between friends?

When do I get a cool banner at the bottom of my posts like you do? Those are AWESOME!

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
I can make you a banner if you post some nice pics :
 

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Hey Chris!

Yes, I am sad I had to miss the DSO this year. I went last year and really enjoyed watching the tournament and after it was over wished I had entered my older dog! I am always so nervous to enter stuff :oops: . Would have definitiely went this year if I hadn't of moved but we started moving in the second week of July and continued right through the month. I just couldn't swing it and I have missed a few other events this year because of moving. Chello had his wallet stolen and Tracey her purse, just before that and they have both been without ID, so they haven't crossed the border in a while. Really screwed up there summer thats for sure! How did you end up doing anyways?

Well, I hope to see you soon. We are bound to run into eachother sometime I am sure. Keep up the good work.
 

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Chris , Peter

Can't rmember which of you posted which but....

1, I have a fear of dogs trained in protection...why? I was lunged at by a GSD when I was lil and a Doberman a few year later. Both Trained in protection.

2. I would not visit your clubs, purely cos dogs smell my fear, this is true...you would not believe how many dogs have growled at me since, they kinda give me that eye and snarl. It's strange, at dog class this white GSD was looking at me wagging it's tail, so i plucked up the courage to say hi, as I did it lunge at me, trainer told me to back off. That dog new I was scared!

3. I haven't nothing against protection in a dog, if it is for the police and security. But it shud not be in the home, like guns they should not be in the home. In rare occassion it can be misused and ending in bad results. People unqulified will see the video and try it for themselves. I have seen upteen teenagers copying Jackass as it makes them look hard.

I furthered questioned my trainer if it was possible why should Roxy not do the Protection, his answer "the breed don't need that kind of reputation, they are badly misunderstood as it is"
You see, alot of people see protection dogs as dangerous. In the 70's it was the GSD, 80's doberman and 90's the apbt got a bad name for easily being trained in protection.

You may have convinced me that if is different with the sport and the love I have for Bully's has swayed me...but I don't think you would get me close enough to pet one tho :p and I will never ever let my teenage kids or their mates watch your video, cos I can bet you one of them will try it out with my dogs :evil:

Now if you could train a teenager like you do your dogs I'm sending one over to you and yes he has a good bite :p
 

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Great stuff Chris! Thanks for the video, and here's hoping for more understanding of the great work you do.

It'd be great to do protection with Red, but I don't know of a good trainer in the area (South of Baltimore) and I don't think the neighbor's would take kindly to practice in the back yard ;)

He'll be heading down the agility route I think.
 

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Roxy said:
You see, alot of people see protection dogs as dangerous. In the 70's it was the GSD, 80's doberman and 90's the apbt got a bad name for easily being trained in protection.
I really don't think that ease of trainability is the main reason for BSL...
 

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Way to go guys. Lets drive a top OB and PP trainer from the forum. I see nothing has changed here.

Awesome video Chris. I think you need to do a seminar in the East Tennessee area sometime soon :wink: I thought Booyeah was going to take that guys head off! We need some more Rumble videos. He is absolutely amazing.
 

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Great video, I don't understand the drama on this thread. Working dogs,(bite work ) and such don't cause BSL's Stupid people do. I trust a fully trained dog much easier than one that isn't. I've been around gaurd dogs almost all my life, even when I was little, Well trained dogs are prodictable, unlike untrained ones. just my 2 cent.
 

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Re: Replacing fear!

Roxy said:
Chris Fraize said:
Fraize writes: (I am not trying to be an ass here it is just the impression you give in your posts.)

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
You sounded a complete ass :)

We don't have the BSL here in the UK, nor do we have pit bulls. Too many ppl back in 1980 trained their pits to be agressive and got them banned :(

We do however have DDA, and protection sports is banned for the average Joe Blogg.

Your reply was very nicely laid out and must have took some time, I appreciate that.
No pittbulls in UK?You must live in a tiny village in Devon mate :) I reckon theres probably more banned dogs in UK since the dangerous dogs act.All the act did was make the listed dogs more desirable to the undesirables imo.
 

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BSL stems from uneducated people that starve, beat, chain out and bully their dogs into being mean. Then the dog gets out and kills a kid because these people were encouraging prey drive with NO obedience. A PP dog is less likely to have an accidental bite than a non PP trained dog. The reason is that it takes structure and obedience for that dog to take the bite and out. They do not spontaneously bite.
PP is severely misunderstood but my boy was/IS still not great with other dogs outside of my "pack", but since PP was started has VASTLY improved because he has a natural outlet. I am tired of people calling it attack training. It is more the animal guarding/defending his handler - to an extent.
 

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BSL stems from uneducated people that starve, beat, chain out and bully their dogs into being mean.
Not always.

A stable dog won't bite (unless provoked) but its a different ball game with an unstable dog. Everyone likes to believe "it's all in how the dog is raised". IMO, thats a load of crap. There are alot of dogs out there in the hands of some really good people who DO NOT beat or neglect their dogs. Temperament is genetic and there are alot of dogs out there with real messed up temperaments. Sadly, many owners of unstable dogs do not recognize their dog has a problem and therefore do not take the proper precautions and someone ends up getting hurt. This is why it is so important that the temperament of any dog being considered for breeding is carefully evaluated (by someone who actually UNDERSTANDS it). I do agree that a good enviornment is important too, BUT a dog is only as good as its genetics allow it to be. If a dog is weak, its weak, and there isn't anything that can be done to change that. Same goes with a strong temperamented (stable) dog. A dog that is strong in in mind is pretty difficult to send over the deep end. Alot of dogs have come from abusive and neglectful backgrounds, and are still as stable as they come. People are too quick to blame a dogs history when it bites someone.
 
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