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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Very much looking forward to getting my new puppy.. Been researching and reading alot about American Bulldogs and cant wait to have one of my own.
I am new to the breed and would appreciate any info out there...
Here is the breeder close to me that i may go with.. expeirenced folks in this area and breed please look over their site and offer any suggestions/comments. Also of course if you notice something negative please inform. I want a great pure bred ABD, and cant wait to get him.

Thanks!!

http://www.americanbulldogstexas.com/index.php
 

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First of all the health gurantee is no good from what I can tell. Perhaps I am interpreting things wrong but by the sounds of it they are only guaranteeing that the puppy is healthy at the time of sale? What is up with that? A good breeder will guarantee the health of their dogs for AT LEAST 2 yrs.

Health Guarantee

Puppies are guaranteed to be healthy at the time of sale, and they will have been given their first shots and wormer. After you purchase your pup, we recommend you take it to your vet, within the first three days, and have them verify the puppy is healthy. If your vet determines the puppy is not of good health, bring the pup back to us for a full refund, or you may have that puppy replaced from the current litter or a later breeding. All breeding stock has been x-rayed and determined to be free from hip dysplasia. Your puppy will be sent home with a Puppy Packet. The packet will include: shot records, tips sheet, sire and dam photos, contract, and ABA &/or NKC papers.



Secondly they claim that all of their breeding stock has been xrayed and determined to be free from hip dysplasia. If this is the case why are there no OFA or Penn hip scores listed on the site? Sounds fishy to me.

Thirdly, I see no evidence that any of their dogs have been tested for NCL. This is very important!!!

Also there is no evidence on the site that this breeder is actively working and showing his dogs.

Why does the breeder not have more information in front of the names of Blaze and Harley's parents? For the sire and dam of Blaze they list them as Rocky and Belle and for Harley's parents the list them as Bullwinkle and Blaze. Yet their male Butkus has the full names listed for his sire and dam. Are those dogs even registered? Blaze looks like she is solid black (although it could be the lighting) and solid black is a fault. More ??? marks.

Personally, I would find another breeder. There are lots better ones out there you just need to look around. How long have you been researching the breed and breeders? If I were to guess I would say not very long. For $1000 US you could get a puppy from some of the best breeders in the world and breeders who stand behind their dogs for more than 3 days!

Just my .02 cents.
 

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I also noticed the health guarantee and thought it was pretty crappy myself.



LISA , I thought very few breeders do the NCL test or am I wrong on this,just curious .Isn't that testing fairly new or am I wrong again.
 

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LISA , I thought very few breeders do the NCL test or am I wrong on this,just curious .Isn't that testing fairly new or am I wrong again.
The test has been available for a little over a year now. You are right, very few breeders are doing it and that is SAD!!! It's a $40 test and the disease is FATAL. NCL has been the talk of the AB community for a year now. Anyone well versed in the breed should be well aware of it!! If a breeder is cutting corners on a $40 test, what other important factors are being overlooked?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for all the info...
I will for sure take that to heart when searching for my new puppy.
As will I bring those concerns up to this breeder to see what their reaction or comments back will be.

Again thanks as I continue to learn about this breed.
 

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Honestly I wouldn't go with those breeders. Its so cheap to get them shipped, that I would rather get one from a good breeder. None of those dogs have done nothing but breed, the male has horrible pigment, he probably gets sunburnt all the time. And of course the reason that Lisa said. I think a good health guarantee is VERY important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I did notice that those dogs didnt 'look' as good as some others I had come across but since im new to the breed maybe I was just being too picky.

How does one like myself know how to spot a "good" breeder? How do I know when im searching for one that the one i come across is a good one and not just a cheap wanna be??

thanks for the help!
Anyone from the Texas area that knows of a good one? I live just north of Dallas and would love to find one semi-local.
 

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KadeABD said:
I did notice that those dogs didnt 'look' as good as some others I had come across but since im new to the breed maybe I was just being too picky.

How does one like myself know how to spot a "good" breeder? How do I know when im searching for one that the one i come across is a good one and not just a cheap wanna be??

thanks for the help!
Anyone from the Texas area that knows of a good one? I live just north of Dallas and would love to find one semi-local.
My first response pretty much summed up what to look for in a reputable AB breeders. Honestly, from your posts, I don't think you have done near enough research. Hold off on getting a dog for now and learn all you can about that breed!! BTW, don't limit yourself to local breeders. There are several reputable breeders out there and they will ship you a puppy if distance is a factor. Mind you I would not have a pup shipped from any old breeder (I wouldn't waste my time with 99% of them) but if you know the reputable ones I would't think twice about it. It is importnat to get into contact with people who have been in the breed a while. My female I had shipped to me from California (I live in Ontario, Canada) despite the fact there are several breeders within a days drive of me. Why? Because most breeders I wouldn't give the time of day too and this particular breeder has a reputation for producing quality dogs and he stands behind them 100%! Check out the True Grit board for more info. Alot of people there who have been in the breed for a long time. There are alot of posts over there regarding the NCL issue as well. Check it out.

http://www.true-grit.us/cgi-bin/YaBB2/YaBB.pl

The Performance section seems to have the most info but feel free to check out all the sections of the forum! Good luck and keep asking those questions!

PS one thing to remember is that looks aren't everything!! A dog could look awesome but be a total POS. Don't let pretty pictures on a fancy website fool you!! Many of the people with fancy websites on the WWW are no more reputable than the backyard breeders you see advertising in your local newspaper.
 

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Wow....thats a really basic website!
The dogs pedigrees arent viewable all you have is a pet name... and none of them have titles, which i understand isnt everything with a working breed, but where do they say that they activly take part in different national working tests/shows (apart from what they say in the front page ofcourse, anyone can say anything, they need evidence to back it up).

TBH they look like some pretty dogs that someone has as pets and breeds them and has the edge with a fancy website.
Like lisa says, if breeders are prepared to do all the nesscery health testing and activley work their dogs, then they would be more of a potential good breeder.

Look around for ages before you make a deciscion, get a good collection of top breeders that all offer the same package i.e health testing etc etc and then ask around and see if you can get feedback off responsbiole people who have brought puppys off the breeder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks again for all your insights and comments.
I emailed that breeder to question him on some things and this is what he responded with.

"As far as a health guarantee, it is suggested that you take your pup to the vet and have them check it out for you. No big deal, if something is not right we will replace the pup. Also for the first year if any major problem shows up we will replace the pup. Of course we don't ever have any problems. When the pup is registered you can request up to 6 generations, I believe, on the pedigree.
We use the NKC. They are faster and much easier to work with. The pups could be double registered with the ABA. They are very slow and expensive. I would be glad to copy the parents pedigree for you, but I do not post it on the website for obvious reasons. The sire, Butkus, has an awesome pedigree of which are two National Champions, both of Joshua Kennels. His pedigree is full of Excellent hips. Harley has not been hip certified. After raising these dogs I'm a true believer that hip problems don't just show up. It is genetic. I know the pedigree on our dogs for at least 7 generations. I have no reason to believe there will be any problem with the puppy. As far as NCL, my dogs show no signs of problems and Harley is beyond the age of onset of clinical signs.

Very good questions. I hope you feel more comfortable about your decision. If for any reason you feel like you are not a getting a top notch puppy I will gladly refund your money immediately.
"
 

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KadeABD said:
Thanks again for all your insights and comments.
I emailed that breeder to question him on some things and this is what he responded with.

"As far as a health guarantee, it is suggested that you take your pup to the vet and have them check it out for you. No big deal, if something is not right we will replace the pup. Also for the first year if any major problem shows up we will replace the pup. Of course we don't ever have any problems. When the pup is registered you can request up to 6 generations, I believe, on the pedigree.
We use the NKC. They are faster and much easier to work with. The pups could be double registered with the ABA. They are very slow and expensive. I would be glad to copy the parents pedigree for you, but I do not post it on the website for obvious reasons. The sire, Butkus, has an awesome pedigree of which are two National Champions, both of Joshua Kennels. His pedigree is full of Excellent hips. It is genetic. I Harley has not been hip certified. After raising these dogs I'm a true believer that hip problems don't just show up. know the pedigree on our dogs for at least 7 generations. I have no reason to believe there will be any problem with the puppy. As far as NCL, my dogs show no signs of problems and Harley is beyond the age of onset of clinical signs.

Very good questions. I hope you feel more comfortable about your decision. If for any reason you feel like you are not a getting a top notch puppy I will gladly refund your money immediately.
"
How ignorant! Is this person for real?? How the heck can you tell if you have recieved a "top notch" puppy after only one year? They aren't even mature yet! Did you think of asking them how they test their dogs for strong temperament?

Of course we don't ever have any problems.
Geez, talk about arrogant!

The sire, Butkus, has an awesome pedigree of which are two National Champions, both of Joshua Kennels. His pedigree is full of Excellent hips. It is genetic. I Harley has not been hip certified. After raising these dogs I'm a true believer that hip problems don't just show up. know the pedigree on our dogs for at least 7 generations. I have no reason to believe there will be any problem with the puppy.
More ignorance. So they are relying on the pedigree of their dogs to ensure soundness?? Have any of these dog even been xrayed?? The website claims they do but it sure doesn't sound like it. So what if the pedigrees are good ? Doesn't mean a thing, breeders need to look at the dogs in front of them first and formost and not rely on pedigrees! What a joke.

As far as NCL, my dogs show no signs of problems and Harley is beyond the age of onset of clinical signs.
Obviously this person has done little to no research on NCL. If they did they would know that a dog need not be affected to produce it in puppies!! All it takes is 2 carriers (neither of which have the diesease, just carry the gene) bred to eachother to end up with affected pups! Breeders must test no matter if their dogs show signs or not in order to determine if their dogs are carriers!!

RUN don't walk away from this breeder. Very unedecuated and ignorant if you ask me. I have no doubt in my mind that they are breeding for the money. Their answers to your questions are all very lame and my guess is that there market is novices who haven't done their homework. Anyone experienced with the breed who has any standards wouldn't touch this breeder with a ten foot pole.
 

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What are these "ouvous Reasons" for not showing peope the pedigrees becausue then they will know you are faking their lines and the people wont buy dogs anymore becasue they will know they are mixed breed garbage dogs? Jeese i wonder how the good breeders who work their asses off and breed good dogs feel about some low life making money off pretending their dogs are from there. Even if they are the good breeders still come across HD soemtimes it isnt gone because of a few good generations MUST ALWAYS x ray!!
Stay away from these lying puppymilling A!*H**@LES
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ok i hear your viewpoints.. but what if its just the breeder who really doesnt know much about certain topics, or doesnt really communicate to the full extent.
Could it be possible its just the knowledge of the breeder that could be lacking and not the dogs/pups themselves?
Couldnt it be possible that the pups will turn out to be great ABDs, its just that they dont have top notch people to speak for him??
Just wondering if im just looking at the dogs/pups seperately from the breeder himself and seeing if the pups will be fine.
 

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Lack of knowledge form the breeder means
Lack of knowledge picking out the right and good quality dogs for breeding
Lack of knowledge in raising the litter correctly
Lack of knowledge means not testing
Lack of knowledge form the breeder EQUALS if you dont knwo what u r doing then you pick Pet quality dogs and breed them the pup will not turn out good because the breeder must have a brain to raise the litter correctly .The pups do learn everything from their dog mother but if the breeder didnt know how to raise the dog he bought for breeding or pick the right one out then she isnt worth breeding and wont teach them the lessons they need to know NOT ALL BITCHES ARE GOOD MOMS!
 

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Couldnt it be possible that the pups will turn out to be great ABDs, its just that they dont have top notch people to speak for him??



Yes, that is possible.
 

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KadeABD said:
Ok i hear your viewpoints.. but what if its just the breeder who really doesnt know much about certain topics, or doesnt really communicate to the full extent.
Could it be possible its just the knowledge of the breeder that could be lacking and not the dogs/pups themselves?
Couldnt it be possible that the pups will turn out to be great ABDs, its just that they dont have top notch people to speak for him??
Just wondering if im just looking at the dogs/pups seperately from the breeder himself and seeing if the pups will be fine.
Why would you want to support someone who is ignorant and doesn't stand behind their dogs for more than one year? How much are they charging you for a puppy? Why not put the money into the pockets of someone who is actually contributing something positive to the breed by knowing what they are looking at before they breed them? If people continue to support backyard breeders then it just gives them more reason to breed their unproven, untested dogs. Like this world really needs more pet quality AB's, Pet finder is already full of them!!!! Breeders like this make me sick. There are alot of good breeders out there who are probably charging around the same amount of money why not go with someone reputable? Support people who deserve supporting!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks everyone for your help.
I was referred to this other breeder in the general area who is expecting pups soon..
Here is their website.. seems more informative then the previous one.
Better looking dogs too.. but of course i am new to this..
Please if you all have time look this one over too and give any opinions..

Thanks again...

http://www.clearcreekbulldogs.com/index.html
 

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If you want a JOshua Dog which seems to be the bloodline you are after looking at the kennels then why arent you going to JOSHUA KENNEL!!! where you know you are getting soemthing good instead of getting soemthig average form a breeder trying to be a Joshua kennel???????

Lem Miller is a excellent breeder! why go to these no bodies trying to make money off other breeder accomplsihments????
i have 2 males from his bloodline and they r amazing!
 

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Where's the health testing? OFA or Penn Hip scores?? NCL?? I find it really funny that so many breeders claim on their websites that their breeding stock are xrayed and determined to be free from hip dyslpasia yet very few actually have Penn Hip or OFA scores. I know for a fact that its only $30 to have hips certified through OFA and we know the cost of doing the xray is a heck of alot more than that! Why would a breeder NOT want to send them in for certification for a mere $30 more? They would be getting a professional opinion from 3 radiologists plus they would not have to worry about people questioning them because OFA has an open database and people can check it out for themselves!! It always puts up red flags for me when there are no hip scores from either OFA or Pen Hip just claims of xraying. Makes you wonder if they actually did xray. They *may* be good dogs judging by the peds, but like I said before there is more to a good dog than a pedigree, and it seems alot of people like to make $$$ off of other people's fame and hard work. No matter how good the pedigree, you still have to test the dogs in front of you for health, working ability, and sound temperament!! That's how we keep the gene pool strong!!
 

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The People dont have to be Top Notch for the puppies to turn out good
Their ethics just need to be
I know lots of people thats are really good breeders that i clash with.All do the same things and acheieve alot and have good dogs i just things are better done one and way they dont...So there are people out there that can be idiots but their ethics need to be there to show good puppies
 
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