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Discussion Starter #1
Here are a couple of pics of Ero, Jaeger, and Matieca doing bite work.


Eros (6yr old, male, Am Staff/Rottie/Golden mix)






Eros' hold and bark.




Working on control. Eros is doing a hold and bark, while Matieca does a bite.




Jaeger's (24wks old, male, APBT) second time on a sleeve.








Jaeger is getting so big.




Matieca (10yr old, female, Kelpie/Chow) doing some bite work.




Matieca loves those dirty hand/wrist bites.



Thanks for checking out my pics. :thumbleft:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you. I fall more in love with him everyday. He is definitely growing up to be a good looking boy.
 

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Who is your trainer?

With all due respect, I would be embarrassed to post pictures like this. I really thought this was a joke!

What reputable trainer allows someone to let their dogs bite them without even the use of collars and leashes???. What reputable trainer lets a dog bite them with another dog loose around it? I have trained at several reputable clubs and NONE would ever allow this to go on..this is backyard, wannabe bite training at its finest. These are the most unprofessional pictures of "bitework" that I have ever seen. It truly horrifies me that you call yourself a dog trainer and behaviourist, yet you post pictures like this! The work being shown here is dangerous and irresponsible. Any decent trainer would be able to see this. If this is actually someone who calls themself a decoy or helper they should be ashamed of themselves. Unless this is just you fooling around in your backyard? None the less, even if that is the case, why are there more than one dog out at a time and why isn't the dog being worked secured to a post?

To those of you who replied with compliments...look again. Do you not see anything wrong with these pictures?

Puregrover.. did you not say you do protection training with your dogs? Don't you see anything wrong with these photos? Obviously you know about as much as ultimate k-9!

People..please do not look at these pictures and think this is how protection training is suposed to be. There are so many things that are wrong with this. The tip and elbow bites are the least of it. If it wasn't for BSL, I would laugh my ass off at these pictures, but instead I just sit here and :cry: There are no other words to describe these pictures other than awful. ..and to think that someone who calls themself a trainer and behaviourist sees nothing wrong with them is what makes it even worse!!!!
 

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I have no hands on experiance (as in worked my dogs in this) what-so-ever with this type of work - but I have to agree with Lisa on this one (gasp! I actually agree with Lisa - and am admiting it :shock: :lol: ). Even to my un-educated eye - I can see several things wrong here. Lisa touched on them - so there is no point in mentioning them again. But I have to ask - why is the female decoy reaching out to touch Jaeger with her unsleeved hand?!? He has no experiance on the sleeve and he is still a pup! He doesn't know any better not to bite the unsleeved arm. That's just plain damn reckless and dangerous IMO!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Lisa said:
Who is your trainer?

With all due respect, I would be embarrassed to post pictures like this. I really thought this was a joke!

What reputable trainer allows someone to let their dogs bite them without even the use of collars and leashes???. What reputable trainer lets a dog bite them with another dog loose around it? I have trained at several reputable clubs and NONE would ever allow this to go on..this is backyard, wannabe bite training at its finest. These are the most unprofessional pictures of "bitework" that I have ever seen. It truly horrifies me that you call yourself a dog trainer and behaviourist, yet you post pictures like this! The work being shown here is dangerous and irresponsible. Any decent trainer would be able to see this. If this is actually someone who calls themself a decoy or helper they should be ashamed of themselves. Unless this is just you fooling around in your backyard? None the less, even if that is the case, why are there more than one dog out at a time and why isn't the dog being worked secured to a post?

To those of you who replied with compliments...look again. Do you not see anything wrong with these pictures?

Puregrover.. did you not say you do protection training with your dogs? Don't you see anything wrong with these photos? Obviously you know about as much as ultimate k-9!

People..please do not look at these pictures and think this is how protection training is suposed to be. There are so many things that are wrong with this. The tip and elbow bites are the least of it. If it wasn't for BSL, I would laugh my ass off at these pictures, but instead I just sit here and :cry: There are no other words to describe these pictures other than awful. ..and to think that someone who calls themself a trainer and behaviourist sees nothing wrong with them is what makes it even worse!!!!
First, these are all my dogs and yes they remain loose while we work the others. It is called teaching control.

Next, we do not use specific collars or harness to signal to our dogs when it is time to work. They work when we tell them to. I have three personal protection trained dogs and one in progress. If they are all together and I have to send one of them, the one I sent better be the only one to go. I don't need four dogs on the same person. My dogs are taught to remain calm until they are told to work. Our dogs do what they are told to do when they are told to do it. If you need the help of collars and leashes to accomplish that, then maybe you shouldn't be doing protection training. Or at least never take your dog off the leash in public.

All of the dogs in our group are required to be fully off-leash obedience trained and under complete voice control before they are allowed to begin protection training. Our dogs are all trained to work independently, not with their handler right at their side petting them. We normally remain 30-50 feet away from the decoys when working our dogs. This requires more confidence and comprehension of commands on the dogs part. It makes the dog safer and more reliable. And my dogs have to be unconditionally reliable since they all have other jobs also (i.e. therapy work, search and rescue, agility, etc.).

If it makes you feel better, this was a private session just with my dogs. No other dogs from the group were there.
BTW, I can work my dogs two or three at a time without a fight and all of them still remain under control. I will have to see if I can find the picture from last week with Eros, Jaeger, and Matieca on the same sleeve at the same time. Maybe you would call that dangerous or reckless, but I think it is awesome to have that much control over your dogs. Try working both of your's at the same time and let us know what happens. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Tinkerbell said:
I have no hands on experiance (as in worked my dogs in this) what-so-ever with this type of work - but I have to agree with Lisa on this one (gasp! I actually agree with Lisa - and am admiting it :shock: :lol: ). Even to my un-educated eye - I can see several things wrong here. Lisa touched on them - so there is no point in mentioning them again. But I have to ask - why is the female decoy reaching out to touch Jaeger with her unsleeved hand?!? He has no experiance on the sleeve and he is still a pup! He doesn't know any better not to bite the unsleeved arm. That's just plain darn reckless and dangerous IMO!

Our dogs are taught to bite once and hold. They are also required to remain calm on that bite. Which means they do not come off of that bite to attack a clacker, a foot, a hand, etc. Once again, we teach are dogs to be reliable and predictable. Without that, you have a very dangerous dog. Jaeger is very calm in his bite. He has been on tugs since he was 10 weeks old, so he is very accustomed to bitework. He just graduated to sleeves now instead of tugs. It doesn't change his previous training. It is still just a game to him.
 

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man, oh man.......

I don't even know where to start?

This is a prime example of what not to do. I thought it was a joke as well.

If you don't know how to go about doing bitework and these images show this picutre in a pretty obvious way, please go to a trainer that does. Bitework training is not for novice trainers. These pics tell a very clear story. No foundation. No imprinting. no confidence. uncomfortable bites. The elbow bites were not good.

This is NOT the way to train protection dogs. Not even close.

Please do not work dogs that do not clearly enjoy working in this way. It is not fair to the dog and to any clients that believe that these dogs will protect in any shape or form.

You use one sleeve for all the dogs. You may want to rethink this. a new dog requires a a puppy and then an intermediate. A 10 year old dog will invariably use a competition sleeve.
 

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All of the dogs in our group are required to be fully off-leash obedience trained and under complete voice control before they are allowed to begin protection training.
So, your 24 week of PUPPY is fully voiced trained? So reliable you can work it without so much as a COLLAR???
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: man, oh man.......

PeterC said:
I don't even know where to start?

This is a prime example of what not to do. I thought it was a joke as well.

If you don't know how to go about doing bitework and these images show this picutre in a pretty obvious way, please go to a trainer that does. Bitework training is not for novice trainers. These pics tell a very clear story. No foundation. No imprinting. no confidence. uncomfortable bites. The elbow bites were not good.

This is NOT the way to train protection dogs. Not even close.

Please do not work dogs that do not clearly enjoy working in this way. It is not fair to the dog and to any clients that believe that these dogs will protect in any shape or form.

You use one sleeve for all the dogs. You may want to rethink this. a new dog requires a a puppy and then an intermediate. A 10 year old dog will invariably use a competition sleeve.

That is an intermediate sleeve, and Jaeger is doing just fine on it. Our 10 yr old normally only bites hidden sleeves. She hates burlap and jute. That is why I am supprised she even bit it. She is actually trained for groin or inner thigh, but we didn't have a suit available at the time.

No confidence :badgrin: My dogs jump 4ft fences, work through gun shots, air horns, and being sprayed by the water hose, and will jump into the water after someone; how much more confidence do you want.

BTW, my dogs love to work. It is a game to them. I will have to try and get a video so you can see them actually work.
 
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