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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I got Rex a bully stick( I dont care whats in it lol) Anyway Rex LOVES it and was eating it. My 2 year old went up to him and was trying to touch it and he barked and growled at her. So I went and took it from him he did nothing. Whats up with this? He enever did this before she always mess with him while he is eating and he never did that. YOu think because its his treat or what? How do I correct this?
 

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Shay78 said:
Ok I got Rex a bully stick( I dont care whats in it lol) Anyway Rex LOVES it and was eating it. My 2 year old went up to him and was trying to touch it and he barked and growled at her. So I went and took it from him he did nothing. Whats up with this? He enever did this before she always mess with him while he is eating and he never did that. YOu think because its his treat or what? How do I correct this?

1. It's a high value treat.
2. You are higher than he is on the totem pole but your kid - 2yrs old - is not. IMO, my two year -old, if I had one, wouldn't be trying to touch my dog's treat. I think that's just asking for trouble.

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yea I didnt know she was trying to get it. I heard him bark and I looked and she had that look on her face. I asked my oldest and he said she was trying to touch it. From now on I will put him in his crate with treats and keep her FAR away lol. I wish it were easy to keep her away from him but she is 2 and hard headed
 

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Shay78 said:
Yea I didnt know she was trying to get it. I heard him bark and I looked and she had that look on her face. I asked my oldest and he said she was trying to touch it. From now on I will put him in his crate with treats and keep her FAR away lol. I wish it were easy to keep her away from him but she is 2 and hard headed
Good to know. I apologize for leaping to conclusions.

Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No need to apologize at all.! I never let any of my kids play with him unsupervised because he is still not FULLY trained in any way. He is also still teething as well and still sometimes will try to chew on me so i wont chance that with them:)
 

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set it up!!!!!!!!!

set up the same scenario.
When it does that again, you correct the CRAP out of that dog and SCREAM "NO!!!!!!!!" It had better know that if it EVER growls at your kid again...................it will DIE. DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT LET THIS GO BY. Set it up! If you do not, it may escalate. Snip the bad habit before it become an issue.

YOu are the ALPHA. You show the dog that this is TOTALLY uacceptable behavior.........the worst possible thing he can do in his life.

If a pup ever growled at my kid, due to food or toy possession, this is something I REALLY show away from, in terms of genetic breeding. I would cull that pup so fast! A properly bred AB's first priority in temperment (way way before it has any working or any ability) is ABSOLUTE TOLERANCE AND LOVE of kids.

Don't let your dog escalate in this behavioral PATTERN. Now, if your kid pulled away and ran back to you, the dog just won. The dog reinforced his pack heirarchy.
 

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Peter, I've often heard that if you correct a dog for growling, in most cases you are teaching him to not give a warning before he bites. If Shay corrects Rex for growling, is it possible that next time the situation arises, he will just bite the child without giving a warning first? I think you're trying to tell Shay to correct Rex's possessive behavior rather than the actual growling, though, right?
 

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I wouldn't "scream" at the dog. Taking the treat away and the dog never gets a treat until he can learn it is NOT HIS. It is the HUMANS treat and the HUMAN has decided to share it with him.
If you trust your dog like this, and I have no clue, I could with our GSDs but I am not sure about your dog - I would sit with the baby on my lap, and have the treat in the kid's hand (with my hand around the kids hand too), and let the dog chew on it-the END of it. Any possessiveness the dog shows, it loses the treat ALL together. Do it daily perhaps until the dog shows ZILCH possessiveness.

Dogs do this all the time. The alpha "owns" the toys, and only ALLOWS the younger pups or dogs to play. The pup learns that the toy belongs to the alpha dog and it is a PRIVELEGE to get to play with it.
In your case, your dog would be getting rewarded for acting possessive over the toy/treat, were you to only allow the treat in the crate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I took it from him and he will not get it back. My 2 year old did not run from him she just sat there looking at him she is not afraid of anything lol. I will try to set it up again an I will let her give him the treat and see how he reacts. Thanks Guys
 

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I think your two year old is too young to be put in the position of giving your young dog a high value treat. JMO.

As for Peter's advice: I read John Lyons - he's a horse trainer who uses very gentle methods to train horses (he's a horse whisperer). HOWEVER he did say in his book that if your horse bites you you have some very brief time to try to kill it. His point is that biting is such an act of agression that you need to be unambiguous in your displeasure. While I clicker train and am gentle with my dogs, Yoshi's acts of resource agression to his pack mates when something fell on the floor required my gettting really ugly with him. I didn't hit him or anything physical, but I got in his face, grabbed him up by his neck flesh and POSITIVELY ROARED at him. By my getting uglier than he did he learned that the resources were infact mine.

I understand that we ought not inadvertantly teach our dogs not to warn by punishing growling, but we also have to take in mind what John Lyons said about horses IMO. So somewhere in the middle is teaching your dog that everybody in the household is higher than he is.

JMO
Paula
 

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With all due respect to all, when it comes to correcting a behavior dealing with hierarchy, it's never a matter to be taken lightly. Especially when we have dogs exposed to kids.

First of all lets keep in mind how the dogs think and respond. Dogs are social and territorial animals. So their instincts when it comes to their home and family members are outstanding. And in their world the pecking order is adamant.

To get into another "position" in the pack, most likely a fight erupts that will determine the outcome. In their world there is no such thing as nagging or coaxing themselves into a position. It's very "black / white" for them when it comes to diciplining.

There is no way we can duplicate that amount of pain in a similar situation (relatively speaking) with our pets at home. So when it comes to solving aggression/hierarchy problems, "Force" shouldn't be discarded. In this case Peter's solution is a valid one.

I bred APBTs for 12 years. My line was purely PP, so most of them had very high civil drives. And I had 3 kids of my own! So I taught them, not only to respect the kids, my dogs would have to stop eating and step back if any of them (my kids) got close to their bowls.

My system was that if my dogs went into their dog house, that's the signal for my kids to leave them alone. I taught my kids that it was their "nap time", and they had to be left alone. So my dogs also learned that when they had enough "play" with my kids, their escape was the dog house!

Under no sircumstances should home aggression not be given the importance it deserves. After over 20 years in dog training, I've seen too many "accident" that weren't accidents at all. The dogs were raised to be in the top positions of the household heirarchy ladder and eventually made their claim. They should be shown that they are in the bottom position and that's is great to be in that position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Nelson said:
With all due respect to all, when it comes to correcting a behavior dealing with hierarchy, it's never a matter to be taken lightly. Especially when we have dogs exposed to kids.

First of all lets keep in mind how the dogs think and respond. Dogs are social and territorial animals. So their instincts when it comes to their home and family members are outstanding. And in their world the pecking order is adamant.

To get into another "position" in the pack, most likely a fight erupts that will determine the outcome. In their world there is no such thing as nagging or coaxing themselves into a position. It's very "black / white" for them when it comes to diciplining.

There is no way we can duplicate that amount of pain in a similar situation (relatively speaking) with our pets at home. So when it comes to solving aggression/hierarchy problems, "Force" shouldn't be discarded. In this case Peter's solution is a valid one.

I bred APBTs for 12 years. My line was purely PP, so most of them had very high civil drives. And I had 3 kids of my own! So I taught them, not only to respect the kids, my dogs would have to stop eating and step back if any of them (my kids) got close to their bowls.

My system was that if my dogs went into their dog house, that's the signal for my kids to leave them alone. I taught my kids that it was their "nap time", and they had to be left alone. So my dogs also learned that when they had enough "play" with my kids, their escape was the dog house!

Under no sircumstances should home aggression not be given the importance it deserves. After over 20 years in dog training, I've seen too many "accident" that weren't accidents at all. The dogs were raised to be in the top positions of the household heirarchy ladder and eventually made their claim. They should be shown that they are in the bottom position and that's is great to be in that position.
So what exactly whould I do to corret this? I want to stop this NOW so please tell me what to do. Thanks!
 

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Nelson....

Thank you for talking logic.

Many people here think this is a light problem. I have seen many kid bites. Guess how it happens.

Dogs are wolves, not little lovable foster children.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: Nelson....

PeterC said:
Thank you for talking logic.

Many people here think this is a light problem. I have seen many kid bites. Guess how it happens.

Dogs are wolves, not little lovable foster children.
Thanks for the advice! I will do ANYTHING to make sure my kids are not in danger. NOTHING is before them esp a damn dog. I know one thing if it does not get corrected he is gonna be gone. I will not take any chances with my kids!
 

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Shay I am with you on that one..I will do what ever it takes to get my dog in line but Momma doesn't play when it comes to kids. I do not by any means know as much as Peter or Nelson but I won't tolerate child aggression, I will get real sassy real quick if Tora even breathes heavy around children. (LOL I am that extreme but you know what I mean)
 

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I will not take any chances with my kids!
I will do what ever it takes to get my dog in line but Momma doesn't play when it comes to kids.


I'm 100% with you there.

I love my dogs and hope they will have long healthy lives in my care, but there is no question of who comes first when it comes to the kids.

I did have a cocker spaniel many many years ago he wasn't trained very well at all (entirely my fault as I just didn't understand the importance of it) He was uncontrollable and didn't like my one daughter who was about 7 at the time. One night she went into the kitchen, he had knocked over the bin as she turned to come and tell me he went for her and bit her leg, not breaking the skin but bruising her leg. I had him put down that night.
I've always felt guilty about that, not that I had him put down, there was no question about that once he had bitten one of my kids. But I knew I had to take some of the blame as I had failed to train him properly. I didn't have a dog for many years after that.
I have had a Golden retriever for 10 years now and Yemi for a few months. Molly the G.R is so good she has always allowed anyone including the kids to take anything off her or disturb her while eating.

I am by no means suggesting that your dogs behavior is down to you. I think you are doing everything you can and although I am no expert by any means I think you have been given some sound advice it's so important to get this sorted asap. In my opinion any dog should know that even the smallest of children is way above him/her in the pecking order.
But even the most docile of dogs should never be left alone with small children.

The very best of luck
 

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but I got in his face, grabbed him up by his neck flesh and POSITIVELY ROARED at him.
If you trust your dog not to bite you in the face,that method works.

The thing is, if you trust your dog not to bite you, then you can let your dog have the treat, chewing it from YOUR hand, you don't give it to him - if it tries to take it from your hand, you reprimand it and then let it chew again, if it continues trying to be possessive of the treat you take it away completely. At some point it can progress to having your child on your lap doing this as well, with your child's hand in your hand. Again this is only if you trust your dog not to bite YOU or your kid-we trusted our dog not to do this so it worked for us.

Why does everyone think that if it's a big dog you have to bring out the big guns immediately, when some smaller things may work?

Our GSD is 100 lbs. and we taught him not to be possessive of anything this way - any of our kids can walk up and take a bone away from that dog.
 
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