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Discussion Starter #1
We started walking Patch as a pup with a harness.

Since we've started obedience training, we are using a thing like a check chain.. it's not as cruel as a check chain (my opinion) because the chain part starts at the bottom of the actual leash and the nylon collar thing goes around his neck. Sorry, I have forgotten the name of it.

Basically, when we walk Patch he is constantly choking himself on it! He pulls so far in front of us and he is choking and u can hear the vibrations in his throat, but he continues walking!

Last week, he actually gagged after tugging so hard! I had to stop and rub his neck cos I thought he was going to vomit. It's actually pretty scary!

How can we stop this?
 

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what you do is pull the chain as hard as you can on the top of his neck and say NO every time he pulls on the leash. Then eventually he will just stop doing it.
 

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first off i would surgest not allowing him to be out in front of you
he should be by your side or right behind you
the alpha dog leads the pack and that should be you

you could also try a prong collor
they look mean but cause no pain
and it distributes the pressure equally around the neck

where choke collar put it all right on the throat and could cause damage if the dog pulled too hard
 

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Biscanton said:
first off i would surgest not allowing him to be out in front of you
he should be by your side or right behind you
the alpha dog leads the pack and that should be you

you could also try a prong collor
they look mean but cause no pain
and it distributes the pressure equally around the neck

where choke collar put it all right on the throat and could cause damage if the dog pulled too hard
Thats what I was thinking, your dog is in a pack, and you and your family is the pack. Right now he thinks he is leading the pack. In my little experience it all starts with small things, you need to be the dominant dog, go through doors first, dont let him sleep on the bed, make him do things you want him to do. And eventually he will follow your lead, and stay next to you or behind you while he is on a leash and follow you around because you are the pack leader. But you have to be concistant. I know there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum so if I am wrong someone correct me.
 

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also when he does something and it really pisses you off give him a little smack on the butt. that shows him that you basically own him and if he trys to defend himself put him in the crate for 20 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
We do try to keep him beside us, that's what they taught us in obedience training... but sometimes he still manages to get in front. and even if he is beside me on a tight lead... he still pulls on the lead and chokes himself!
you would thing that gagging and dry-wreaching would stop him from doing it... it's like he doesn't care! he gets so excited that he wants to get in front and who cares if he chokes!!!!

he's good in other ways though, like he stops at corners when we're about to cross a road, etc.

it's just the choking thing!
 

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i believe you might be using the choke chain wrong. Hes not supposed to pull on it whenever he does YANK the chain and if he has a brain he will stop or slow down. Eventually after a long time of you YANKING it whenever he goes ahead of you he will associate going ahead of you equals getting choked. SO im not dog expert thats just what worked for me. Who knows maybe your dog is more stubborn then mine lol. Well good luck buddy.
 

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Patch said:
We do try to keep him beside us, that's what they taught us in obedience training... but sometimes he still manages to get in front. and even if he is beside me on a tight lead... he still pulls on the lead and chokes himself!
you would thing that gagging and dry-wreaching would stop him from doing it... it's like he doesn't care! he gets so excited that he wants to get in front and who cares if he chokes!!!!

he's good in other ways though, like he stops at corners when we're about to cross a road, etc.

it's just the choking thing!
He will do that on his own when you become the Alpha. I guess some dogs will always think they are the alpha, and there isnt much you can do about it. Check this link out.
http://www.nearr.com/foster/alpha.html
 

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Discussion Starter #9
maybe he doesn't have a brain.... or he's stubborn... because i yank it... and he chokes and gags. etc.. but then just keeps going!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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To begin with, it does seem that most of the members do use a prong collar with very good results. Choking, gagging and injuring the wind pipe in the throat are attributed to choke chain type collars. It might be better it invest in a prong collar for Patch. The other thing about him walking ahead of you besides the Alpha thing is that in Obedience training you teach a dog that they must be aware of you at all times so that they know what you want them to do. Which means that they are to walk beside you, on your left and with out pulling. I have found the quickest and easiet way to accomplish this is when you take them outside and are on the walk, walk about 5 feet and turn around and continue walking in the opposite direction. When the dog feels the pull of your turning, pull up on the leash and say in a higher and suprised voice, "hey, what happened, come Patch." and continue walking. They will look at you in total surprise and confusion because they were not expecting this. Keep doing this, walking in a quick manner and every 5 to ten feet turn and pull and talk in a surpise manner that he did not come with you. It does not take to long for them to recognize that to stay with you they have to watch you. Once they learn that they have to watch you to know where you are going, make sure he is staying by your left side. The moment he starts tugging ahead make your u-turn again to remind him he has to watch you. When he turns when you do, give him the biggest praise that you can.
(p.s. - Do not hit your dog. You want him to enjoy his walks, he just needs training.)
 

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Since your worried about him choking himself i would suggest every time he goes to pull change directions and within ten minutes you should have him beside you walking calmly, just remember everytime he pulls change direction
 

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I use this. It's called the No-Pull Dog Halter. I used it on my Rotti (about 10 years ago) and I now use it with Bear. So it's been out a very long time. It's amazing and you will be very happy. I didn't get it online here. I got it at my local specialty pet store. But this site seems a little cheaper than what I just paid.

http://www.absolutelygolden.com/Products/CollarsLeads/SpornNoPullHalter.htm
 

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If I'm correct, I believe Patch is about 3 months old?

If so, this is way too young for a pinch or choke. Try working on the obedience aspect with a strong flat collar before moving to these tools. This pup is going to hurt himself because he doesn't know any better(OB). It isn't the leashes problem it's yours.

Yes, most of us use a pinch over a choke but never at 3 months. Your pup is still in the early molding stage and should be taught the correct way to walk. If he won't listen to you and continues to pull then you don't walk. Or try changing the scenario where you become the lead and show him the correct pace. If he won't listen then you don't go any further. Be sure to be very vocal on what you are looking for.

Eventually, your pup will walk properly and this is the time you invest in an extra aide. We don't slap on useless tools for a dog that doesn't know why they are there. We put them on to protect them not teach them.
 

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Patch said:
We started walking Patch as a pup with a harness.

Since we've started obedience training, we are using a thing like a check chain.. it's not as cruel as a check chain (my opinion) because the chain part starts at the bottom of the actual leash and the nylon collar thing goes around his neck. Sorry, I have forgotten the name of it.

Basically, when we walk Patch he is constantly choking himself on it! He pulls so far in front of us and he is choking and u can hear the vibrations in his throat, but he continues walking!

Last week, he actually gagged after tugging so hard! I had to stop and rub his neck cos I thought he was going to vomit. It's actually pretty scary!

How can we stop this?

He's choking himself because the reward is worth the discomfort. He pulls to get to where he's going and he chokes but he gets to where he's going. Let me say that my experience thus far is my rhodesian ridgebacks, the biggest one is 110lbs. They walk on flat collars. No chokes no prongs.
I think another poster said what I'm about to - to teach heel let him forge (get ahead), say nothing, just change direction. Keep doing this until he gets irritated enough to pay attention to you. Then teach heel - praise. Do not continue to walk as he pulls.

Since he's gotten into pulling it will take some time to break him of this habit. But heel is not about the tool, heel is about maintaining a position.

JMO
Paula
 

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Family of 5 said:
If I'm correct, I believe Patch is about 3 months old?

If so, this is way too young for a pinch or choke. Try working on the obedience aspect with a strong flat collar before moving to these tools. This pup is going to hurt himself because he doesn't know any better(OB). It isn't the leashes problem it's yours.

Yes, most of us use a pinch over a choke but never at 3 months. Your pup is still in the early molding stage and should be taught the correct way to walk. If he won't listen to you and continues to pull then you don't walk. Or try changing the scenario where you become the lead and show him the correct pace. If he won't listen then you don't go any further. Be sure to be very vocal on what you are looking for.

Eventually, your pup will walk properly and this is the time you invest in an extra aide. We don't slap on useless tools for a dog that doesn't know why they are there. We put them on to protect them not teach them.
I agree 100%. I use a prong but I did not start using it until Kate was over 1 year (maybe even a year and a half) and had gone through a basic OB class

The way to achieve this level of walking is by doing what others have suggested by keep going the other way so Patch learns to pay attention to you
 

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pitbulllover said:
also when he does something and it really pisses you off give him a little smack on the butt. that shows him that you basically own him and if he trys to defend himself put him in the crate for 20 minutes.
It doesn't show him that you own him. It shows him that you'll get him to act the way you want by hurting/scaring him. IMHO, hitting a dog is not a good way to earn respect from him. Sure, you may scare him into behaving, but he won't respect you as a leader for it.

As far as the leash walking goes, Bella was a royal pain in the butt until my husband and I stopped giving her so much leash. We just shortened the leash up to about 18 inches or so to force her to walk by our side. We gave her lots of verbal praise and gave her treats occasionally whenever the leash wasn't tight. Pretty soon she realized, "Hey...walking by Mom and Dad is a good thing! I might get a treat!" Even now when we don't carry treats with us, she still walks well, right by our sides. It's like gambling...she keeps at it because she thinks she's going to hit the jackpot. :) Now that we know that she is capable of walking nicely on a loose leash, she gets a quick pop of her prong collar (she's still in training...I'm hoping to switch to a flat collar soon) when the leash gets tight in my hands. I'm not a big fan of correcting a dog for a behavior when you haven't properly trained against it. It's not fair to the dog to punish it for something it doesn't even know is wrong, like pulling on the leash when you've just been letting him do it all along.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Wow guys, thanks for all your feedback!

Family of 5, Patch is actually almost 5 months old.

Also, we are not using a check chain per se.... i think it was called a martingale or something like that???? It's like a normal nylon collar around his neck, and where it joins at the top of the neck there is a chain that feeds through both ends and hooks onto the lead.

One of the trainers at OB training made me get it because she didn't want a check chain on little Patch.

The sporn halter looks fantastic... i think that's more of what we need. Not sure if the obedience trainers will let me use one of those though... all the dogs there have check chains and i've managed to sneak my martingale in... i've told them i won't use a check chain on him this young.

I will definately try the walking in the opposite direction tonight. I really hope he breaks the habit. We are trying so hard... and we have the lead really short, pretty much straight from our hip to him, so he has no way to move... but sometimes i let the lead go a bit, so I guess it's my fault!

 
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