[wrknrott]

I'm relatively new to this board and I just want to throw out some food for thought...

The breed organizations (such as AKC) have done a fairly good job at preserving the look (conformation) of a particular breed as it applies to a standard (type & temperament), but these same organizations have failed to preserve the working ability as it applies to the ancestry of that breed. Now in such cases as the English Bulldog and the GSD we can easily argue (or see that) that conformation traits have even surpassed functionality! This is happening to many breeds..... what these groups fail to protect is the intended temperament of the breed. I'm completely at a loss for this.... they want 250 some odd breeds with the temperament of a Golden Retriever! Why is this?

Because this way breeders can sell puppies without potential liability? The AKC certainly does not want the association of the sports that include manwork! I have seen a complete separation between show and work? Many strong working breeds are gone Bouvier, Giant Schnauzer, Doberman to name few.... and the Rottweiler is soon to be on the heels of the GSD in this respect! The separation of work with type vs type!

Most any breed of any significant stature had in it's history the ability as a guardian... and the common trait was the guardianship of man! They had other functions such as herding, flock guardian, drover, butchers dog, hunter (many of you probably didn't know the Rottweiler was considered a hunting dog until the Germans banned such activity), etc...

Why not pursue breed worthy dogs, temperament tested dogs (bite work) and good type as your next companion, as your next conformation prospect? Now that would be a change in concept!
:?

 

[alphadog]

Well said Wrknrott!! I have seen breeds change right before my eyes

 

[True_Pits]

Well said!!! Its crazy how they change breeds and turn them into something totally non-functional.

 

[Showbull]

It's up to breeders to be responsible and preserve their breed, not the registry. AKC can't control who breeds what to what. That is the job of the breeder who works to protect their breed... AKC doesn't even write the standards for each breed, the breed club does.

I am not a huge AKC fan, but hey I see it like it is. It's a registry and at this point in time, that's all it is... It would be a great day if they would get a little more strict on registration practices, but that's another thread!

 

[wrknrott]

More than a registry......

Being a registry is a huge influence on the dog world! Besides being a registry are they not one of the largest venues for showing and promoting the showing of breeds in North America? Is there not a perceived quality to a AKC registered dog?

Does their registry recognize working venues that include manwork? Do they allow dogs to be registered from parents with no working title or breed suitability tests?

The AKC is more than a registry, they and more so it's Judges are a huge influence on the breeds! I find it absolutely ridiculous for a Judge to be considered an expert or an authority on xx number of breeds! Example: The ADRK is the parent club for the Rottweiler and like all parent clubs wrote the standard for the breed, with revisions as time passed. A standard containing appearance and temperament. An ADRK Judge spends many years apprenticing then judging only the Rottweiler... he IMO is the only true authority on the breed. The breed club maintains the work in the breed, but they have little influence in what happens here in North America... other than through the FCI they, the ADRK, wrote the standard for the breed. This is the similar scenario for most other breeds as well.

The ADRK as a parent club requires a Rottweiler at a minimum to have a breed suitability test for breeding! Then the ADRK breed warden has to approve the breeding before it takes place to ensure the compatibility of traits, health and certifications are in place. The progeny from these breedings are registered in the ADRK. You can V-1 rate in conformation 100 times under the ADRK and you still can't breed without the BST! But he/she was such a pretty dog and had so much to offer the breed... ROTFLMAO.

I feel that it is up to the breeder to mirror the parent club of the breed...

 

[PitBullRoyalty]

I think it's insane how a poorly bred dog can be registered as pure bred and not forced to be fixed. I think if the AKC and such stepped up on the quality of the dogs being bred, they would better preserve the breed standards. All pet quality dogs IMO should be fixed before leaving their breeder.

 

[OrsonDogge]

I think it's insane how a poorly bred dog can be registered as pure bred

That is why i dont trust any "papers" or registration a dog has.
Especially all these newly formed breed registries.
How Orson is registered as a OEB with the "national bulldogge association", i will NEVER know. :?
Just cause his dam is one doesnt mean
he should be registered (his dad is a EB mix-mutt).
That sort of thing goes against everything i think a registry is for!

 

[kogeki]

God help us if the AB is ever recognized by the AKC.

 

[True_Pits]

I also wish they'd do more, but they are just a registry and its up to the breeders and lots of breeders are just breeding trash instead of keeping the integrity.

I do also think its silly we expect one judge to be an expert in every breed.

Thats why I do mostly ADBA, as its an APBT registry only and thats what the judges know.

It would be terrible if the AB (among other breeds) were AKC recognized :shock: Just look what happened to the APBT (called AST with the AKC) its crazy the change in breeds!

 

[wrknrott]

Rose colored glasses

I also wish they'd do more, but they are just a registry and its up to the breeders and lots of breeders are just breeding trash instead of keeping the integrity.

Breeders tend to breed the type that the Judges are putting up in the ring. Allot of breed standards have pieces that are subjective and leave too much to interpretation. This interpretation is not only of conformation traights, but temperament traits as well.... but nobodies judging those temperament traits except the breeders with their rose colored glasses on... LOL. :shock:

 

[PitBullRoyalty]

And if the judges happen to like the way a dog looks who is taller, shorter, thicker, etc. of the breed standard then they will choose them best of breed (even though they aren't true to standard). then breeders start breeding dogs off standard, look what happened with Rufus!

 

[Lisa]

People need to start taking conformation shows for what they are worth, nothing more than an evaluation of how a dog stacks up in a physical sense. Only one very small piece of the puzzle. Although temperament is judged somewhat, no where near enough can be learned about a dog after only a few minutes in a ring. Temperament/working ability can only be properly evaluated when a dog is actually working, and working under pressure and stress.

People who show dogs need to realize that conformation Championships are just that, and a very small piece of the total pie. If someone has a working breed of dog and decided to breed it based solely on the fact it is a show champion then that is their fault not the fault of the kennel clubs. The kennel clubs aren't the ones putting the dogs together, the breeders are.

 

[Redbull]

God help us if the AB is ever recognized by the AKC.

I used to think this way, but to be honest and on the other hand, there is so much garbage in the AB world that needs to be weeded out that being recognized by the AKC may not be so bad. You can still have working dog clubs and such, but I for one think that a lot of sh!t needs to be weeded out of the AB gene pool. I don't see how just by being recognized by the AKC is going to ruin a breed. There will always be the WBA, ABA, etc. A little bit of consistency isn't a bad thing - and there already is 2 set standard, yet there are several lines that look extremely different, and I can honestly only think of maybe a handful of lines that are decent in most regards. Way too much sh1t / poor structure / poor performance / health issues / etc out there. A little bit of control may not be so bad.

 

[Lisa]

The problem with AKC recognition is that it will bring increased popularity to a breed.

The AB breed does not need to become more popular than it already is. There are already MORE than enough losers involved in this breed, we don't need to attract any more. The more popular a breed becomes, the more people who start breeding that should not be and it just snowballs from there.

I am against AKC recognition of the AB breed but not because I think the AKC ruins breed by itself but rather because of the increased popularity that it brings with it.

 

[Redbull]

That's a good point, never thought of that.

I wonder if being recognized by the AKC would also be the final nail in the coffin for the AB and inevitable BSL.

 

[PitBullRoyalty]

I agree.. so many breeds have been ruined by simply becoming popular. the worst have to be the port. water dog and the tibetian terrier, aweful temperments on them nowadays, maybe 95% of the portys that come in for baths are so nasty they have to be muzzled the entire time. I honestly never realized that the AB wasn't recognized by the AKC. For some reason i thought they were in the working group. Not that the working group is even judged by their working ability. :roll: