[2bully]

I've seen several references to having temperment tests done before breeding. Which is the preferred test? Is there a nationally recognized test that I'm missing out on? I'm aware of several diferent tests and organizations giving them. Is one better than the other? I'm training my bully pup in Schutzhund. I have a breeding contract with the breeder (meaning that at the discretion of the breeder I may be required to stud my pup for the breeder's benefit). I'm required to have all proper genetic and health testing done by 30 months of age. I'm not sure if I'll pursue studding for myself, its to early to even consider at this point.

 

[attitude]

i like to hit as many different types of tt as i can. there is ATT (american temperament test, i believe)
CGC/CGN (canine good citizen/neibour)
schutzhund bh
gdt (irondog international)


i am sure there are some others that i am missing but these are your basics

 

[2bully]

i like to hit as many different types of tt as i can. there is ATT (american temperament test, i believe)
CGC/CGN (canine good citizen/neibour)
schutzhund bh
gdt (irondog international)


i am sure there are some others that i am missing but these are your basics

The first order of business is a CGC, then on to a BH and AD. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Lisa]

I am going to play the devils advocate here (yup again) :laughing6:

http://user.mc.net/~jimengel/JimRead/temperament.htm

 

[attitude]

I am going to play the devils advocate here (yup again) :laughing6:

http://user.mc.net/~jimengel/JimRead/temperament.htm

oh hey, i know tt's aren't foolproof but it is a start. tt is only as good as the person doing the eval, and i have seen many (many) dogs that shouldn't pass do so, in all of the listed tt types. that said tho, i would rather see a kennel/breeder that at least does them than one that doesn't

 

[2bully]

I am going to play the devils advocate here (yup again) :laughing6:

http://user.mc.net/~jimengel/JimRead/temperament.htm

That was a good read. It mentioned alot of my concerns. I wasn't only going to rely on a tt as the only factor in deciding to stud. But as a platform to start with. As far as I'm concerned I won't stud on my own valition(sp?) until I get a Sch1.

 

[Lisa]

Ya, its interesting and eye opening at least.

I am not a fan of Jim Engel becuase of his known dislike of bull breeds but I thought in the case of this article, it wasn't relevant.

He makes some good points about the tests and how they relate to working dogs.

I think these 2 paragraphs sum the article up the best....

The danger is that such tests could do a great deal of harm by certifying, at least in the minds of the public, very poor dogs as having "good temperament" and failing good dogs because they walk around a plastic sheet or grating on the ground or because an inexperienced person was not able to evaluate a dog's reaction properly. The simple fact is that there is no real evidence for their validity, and a lot of experience to indicate that they very often provide terribly misleading results. Over the past years, it has become increasingly apparent that establishing working character requires hard work and a working test, there are simply no short cuts.

and

In summary, the concept of a temperament test applicable for all breeds, from the Cocker Spaniel to the German Shepherd, has proven unwieldily and not really useful. I believe that the ATTS type test may have a long term usefulness as a low level screening criteria for breeds intended primarily as family pets, such as the Poodle or one of the unused hunting breeds, but in its present form has little to offer the serious working dog breeder or trainer.

 

[2bully]

any of the tt that aren't related to a specific working trial all have their faults. With so many available I just wanted some pointers to those that might be more acceptable as a platform to start with. when I volunteered at my local shelter I had to give one that they got from somewhere.This test wasn,t fair or informative as a tool in determining a dogs true temperment.

 

[Lisa]

I think looking at this from the standpoint of the general public and how many people view BSL I can see how putting temperament tests on our bullies can be a good thing. It looks good to the public to have an AB or APBT with a CGC or ATTS certficate. However, the author of that article makes a very valid point and that is too many people put their (working breed) dogs through these tests and then use it as justifying breeding. There is so much more to a working breed of dog than acting stable and non aggressive while out in public. in fact there a parts of these tests where I think aggression "should" be justified. Look at when the evaluator put the umbrella in the dogs face and opens it up. Depending on how close the person is to the dog when they do this, I would not fault a dog that went to grab the umbrella, yet that merits a fail, right?

 

[attitude]

Look at when the evaluator put the umbrella in the dogs face and opens it up. Depending on how close the person is to the dog when they do this, I would not fault a dog that went to grab the umbrella, yet that merits a fail, right?

in an att they take into account a dog that has pp or sport training. they also expect an animal to have a natural guard instinct. the umbrella is not opened "in the dogs face" and a dog that steps up or stands guard would not be a problem. if a dog actually grabbed the umbrella in this test it SHOULD fail

 

[Lisa]

Like I said it would depend on how close the umbrella was to the dogs face when opened. I am sure it varies slightly from organization to organization and from evaluator to evaluator. It the person opening the umbrella kept their distance then obviously the dog should not feel the need to attack it but if it were close enough to be a threat to the dog in that case I wouldn't fault it. That's all I am saying.

I think the bottom line is that these tests really don't mean much in relation to working breeds of dogs. They are more for pet owners or breeders of dogs whose original purpose was to be a pet. It should not be used as a breeding tool for a working breed of dog.