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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Last night at obedience class my instructor asked me if I was ready to try some new things to get Bella under control while in public. I said of course, and he told me that he thought she was ready to be tried on the prong collar. She is a 7 month old American Bulldog and we have worked and worked and worked some more with her to get her to stay focused on us when meeting other people/dogs instead of tackling them and turning back flips trying to get to them. When the instructor put the collar on her and started working with her she would lunge and try to get to other dogs that she passed in class and he would pop the leash which would cause her to yelp really loud At times she would start biting on the leash and didn’t want to cooperate with him which resulted in a pop of the leash by the instructor which made her yelp.
At times she seemed so scared that she wanted to come to me for comfort and it was killing me to watch this. In the end she calmed down and didn’t pull so much with the trainer, but she seemed so submissive which I’m not sure if I like either. Has anyone else had this experience and if so what did you do? I honestly felt like someone was beating my child and I wanted to knock the crap out of the trainer. My trainer told me to work with her over the next week before our next class and he will re-evaluate Bella then. What experiences have you had with this and how did it end up?

Thanks so much for your input,
 

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Sounds fine. Some dogs will react like that and if she's a soft dog, she only needs very mild corrections which should be immediately followed by praise for doing the right thig (even if she didn't do it on her own) Corrections will bring the dog down, a good trainer can prevent the dog from crashing by timing praise and correction perfectly.
 

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ehackler said:
Last night at obedience class my instructor asked me if I was ready to try some new things to get Bella under control while in public. I said of course, and he told me that he thought she was ready to be tried on the prong collar. She is a 7 month old American Bulldog and we have worked and worked and worked some more with her to get her to stay focused on us when meeting other people/dogs instead of tackling them and turning back flips trying to get to them. When the instructor put the collar on her and started working with her she would lunge and try to get to other dogs that she passed in class and he would pop the leash which would cause her to yelp really loud At times she would start biting on the leash and didn’t want to cooperate with him which resulted in a pop of the leash by the instructor which made her yelp.
At times she seemed so scared that she wanted to come to me for comfort and it was killing me to watch this. In the end she calmed down and didn’t pull so much with the trainer, but she seemed so submissive which I’m not sure if I like either. Has anyone else had this experience and if so what did you do? I honestly felt like someone was beating my child and I wanted to knock the crap out of the trainer. My trainer told me to work with her over the next week before our next class and he will re-evaluate Bella then. What experiences have you had with this and how did it end up?

Thanks so much for your input,
Ya well a prong isn't something I'd use either and I sure as heck wouldn't stand by and watch someone do that to my dog either. JMO
Paula
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The trainer told us when using the collar to give her lots of prais and treats when she does the right thing and after he worked with her he sat in the floor with her giving her lots of praise and petting to build her back up. I guess it just bothered me seeing someone else do somthing to my dog like that. More feedback is greatly appreciated.
 

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I refused to use a prong collar even the one with the rubber tips! With prong collars corrections dont need to be so harsh a tug or two usually does the trick so I've been told. Have you tried a Head Halti? At least with that when she goes to jump on people u give a LITTLE tug and so she's looking at you.
 

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Bam freaked over a simple choke collar when we first got him, dogs are fakers to a certain extent. I don't think a prong should be a first choice, but you said that other things haven't worked. The thing that I don't like about prong collars is that they can't be slid up as high on the dog's neck. I put it as high as it can go. That space just behind the cheeks and ears at the base of their head gives a whole new meaning to the word control. The neck of a bully is pure muscle, if the collar slides any lower than that they don't even feel it. When walking Bam I have to slide the choke a little higher when we are near any potential problems and he is as good as gold.
 

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I have a prong and it doesnt work if he's already "on" and in a
red zone. He has such a high pain tolerance that i could tug as
hard as i can, and he doesnt flinch. It only works if he is calm and i
give it a slight tug, like to make him heal.
I would like a halti, but his nose is too short to fit one. :?
 

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When walking Bam I have to slide the choke a little higher when we are near any potential problems and he is as good as gold.
How do you get a choke to stay that high...i've tried and it always slips
down to the neck??
 

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BamBam's Dad said:
The thing that I don't like about prong collars is that they can't be slid up as high on the dog's neck.
When I walk my dogs, the prong collar sits high on their necks, right behind their jaws. I have to stop and adjust it every once in a while, but it can be slid up high.
 

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OrsonDogge said:
When walking Bam I have to slide the choke a little higher when we are near any potential problems and he is as good as gold.
How do you get a choke to stay that high...i've tried and it always slips
down to the neck??
He has to walk with his head next to my leg. I pull up, not back.
 

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OrsonDogge said:
I have a prong and it doesnt work if he's already "on" and in a
red zone. He has such a high pain tolerance that i could tug as
hard as i can, and he doesnt flinch. It only works if he is calm and i
give it a slight tug, like to make him heal.
I would like a halti, but his nose is too short to fit one. :?
What about the Gentle Leader? I do believe they have been used on short nose dogs. I think I remember seeing Bulldog on the size chart when I bought one for my GSD and APBT.
 

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hey, if your dog is lunging towards other dogs.....

then the punishment (correction) has to fit the action. Punishment must fit the crime.

don't BABY YOUR DOGS. Teach it that HIS ACTIONS have certain reaction. Not you. His actions.

One harsh correction is better than many many nagging "please listen to what I say........".

I am not saying the trainer is using it correctly or incorrectly. However, trying to FIX an ingrained problem you allowed to happen many times before is hard.

BOTTOM LINE IS THIS......did he fix the problem? Results. that is the bottom line! Otherwise you are wasting your money and time.
 

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When used properly prong collars are safer than choke chains. Put one on your arm and pull. The correction is evenly dispersed along the width of the collar. It is not narrow like choke chains. The dogs reaction was more likely a reaction to the fact that it couldn't do/was corrected for actions he typically gets away with. I use a prong collar on my dog and pretty much laugh at anyone who thinks its cruel. Educate yourself on your breed and proper use of training techniques. There is a link around here somewhere about proper fitting/use of prong collars.
 

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OrsonDogge said:
When walking Bam I have to slide the choke a little higher when we are near any potential problems and he is as good as gold.
How do you get a choke to stay that high...i've tried and it always slips
down to the neck??
The colar probably needs to have some links removed. Never place an unopened prong over the dogs head. Always unclasp it first. THe links can easily be removed so that the collar stays high on the neck.
 

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We use prong collars on both Magnus and Haus. Nothing else has worked on them. With Justice, just a quick pop with her regular collar on does the trick.
 

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I forgot to mention one thing. Don't comfort your dog when it is acting fearful or throwing a fit. I know it's tempting and we've all probably caved in and done it, but it reinforces negative behaviors.
 

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Re: hey, if your dog is lunging towards other dogs.....

PeterC said:
BOTTOM LINE IS THIS......did he fix the problem? Results. that is the bottom line! Otherwise you are wasting your money and time.
Well I disagree on this principle. I mean heck I can teach a task a number of ways - but IMO the means do not necessarily justify the ends.

JMO of course.
Paula
 

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If your dog is actually yelping then I have to think your trainer has the pinch on too tight. It's not to be used to inflict pain but instead to get the dogs attention back on YOU. Does your dog have a high tolerance?

Another thing, IMO you want your dog to be submissive to you. It means your dog realizes you are the Alpha and this is very important with any bully breed.

My suggestion is to slip another link on the pinch and see if that helps. It is a very good tool IF used properly.
 

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Paula.

Maybe this is where we differ.

I am a realist. I train dogs for a goal and must have results. Otherwise I am wasting time and money.

No client is going to pay you to diddle around with a dog without seeing results.

Also, there is a scale. Some dogs are hard (mentally with strong strong nerves and courage with high pain tolerance), so what seems harsh to one dog is a freaking cake walk to another. As a trainer, you must acknowledge these differences and train accordingly.

You cannot train every dog the same way. What is cruel for one dog is not even close for another.
 
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