[peeblerelf]

In the bark collar thread you said to use a regular shock collar to deter barking, but only if you weren't planning on using the shock collar in the future for something else. Why is that? Just curious as to the reasoning behind that?

 

[Tia]

I use bark collar on Carley while in her crate at training to correct for "over barking" while other dogs are working. But i dont do this with electronics, cause i dont want the dog to not like the collar, i dont want them having a reaction to the collar.
Carley doesnt always obey the collars anyways.... :roll:

 

[peeblerelf]

I was always told that you are to de-sensitize the dog to the e-collar (let them wear it for a while without using it) so they don't know where the shock is coming from. that way they don't associate the correction with the collar.

 

[Tia]

Yeah thats what i said, "not having a reaction to the collar" they should have a positive expereicne overall and should have no reaction to it Good or Bad, should be like wearing just another collar.
When electronics is used correctly is a great tool

 

[peeblerelf]

Exactly...I just don't understand Peter's reasoning that if you use it to deter barking, you can't use it for anything else. If you desensitize the dog properly, you should be able to use it for whatever is necessary. It's like saying if you use a pinch for heeling work...you can't use it for anything else. I'm just wondering his theory behind it.

 

[PeterC]

Personally, I don't like to use the collar as a punative tool or a compulsion tool.
As a bark collar, it is stictly compulsion, punative tool. You do this........you get zapped. So, you curb this behavior, but it also decreases the dog's drive while on the collar.
For me, I want crazy drive when doing OB. The e collar for me, is an OB tool to SPEED the dog up. That is it. I don't TEACH a new command with it and I don't punish or give corrections with it.

As a training tool, ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TEACHING THE DOG, HOW TO TURN OFF THE STIMULUS. This is key.

for example. COME or recall. The dog has to know the command first, with food or ball. Then I use the E collar.

I use a very low setting, enough to get the dog's attention and the intensity of distractions. Something like someone constantly tapping on your neck. Bothersome but not painful.
BEFORE I GIVE THE COMMAND, I SEND A STIMULUS. Then give command. When the dog TURNS AROUND TO COME, I remove the stimuls. In this way, the DOG controls how to turn the stimuls off. He learns how to turn off the collar. Upon full completion of command, come, heel, and look up, he gets a tug (reward).

This tool makes your dog SUPER FAST. Each time the dog will do it faster to turn off the stimuls.

It is a wonderful tool but a tool that many do NOT know how to use properly and is too easily abused.

It is probably the fastest way to ruin your dog if you don't know what you are doing.

 

[peeblerelf]

I agree that many don't know how to use properly. I guess it was kinda misleading in your previous post. I thought you meant you coudln't use it at all after using as a bark deterrant. I know you need to teach a command first, before applying any type of compulsion, which is something else a lot of people forget! thank you for clarifying

 

[Lisa]

I use an ecollar as a form of correction with no side effects. In fact, it is the only thing my dog responds to. I can prong him until the cows come home when he is in drive and he doesn't even feel it. That's just the way he is and I have no other choice. My female on the other hand responds great to a prong so I would probably use Peter's theory with her. I may end up using it for a few exercises to pick up her speed. For example the sit and down in motion it works excellent for! I really had good results getting a quick sit and down with Rosco using the ecollar. I think all dogs are different and require different types of training. I would love to be able to train a dog without the hassle of using an ecollar but unfortuantely without it I would be screwed with Rosco. Of course I need to get him working without it eventually, but the same can be said for people who train with prong collars as well. Its a training tool and just like all others need to be approached with common sense and fairness.