[4NGI3]

If you are a breeder and you sold a dog to someone, and the dog a year later is diagnosed with hip dysplasia, what is the common practise?

Nelson just turned one last week (check out photos of his party here http://bulldogbreeds.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=6925) and we took him to the vet for a checkup and he was diagnosed with hip displasia.

We rang the breeder and he said there have been no problems with any of the dogs in their litter. He said that we should take Nelson back to him so he can see Nelson and his xrays. But i'm guessing the vet knows best. Anyway, the breeder does sound like he genuinely cares they've had many litters before and his wife is just so empathetic that I can't imagine that they are tyring to be shifty. He said that if it was bad enough that he would rather put nelson down instead of costing us so much money in vet bills and meds and give us first pick of the next litter for free. but obviously thats not an option for us.

a few friends have said that the breeder should be giving us back a portion of the $1000 that we bought nelson for because he has hip probs as we have papers and nelson's parents are supposed to have perfect hips and perfect temperments. ah, what do i do?

ps i don't need anyone to tell me " you should have found a more reputable breeder" etc because this is the most reputable ab breeder in our state. i dont' need anyone to give me a lecture on what i didn't do and should hav edone. what i need is some advice on how i should handle this from here.

should i be asking for any hard copies of the bloodlines of nelson's parents and their hip scores? what other information should i get from them?

 

[Lisa]

What did your health guarantee state?

Also, unless the owners of Nelsons littermates xrayed their dogs how does the breeder know there are no problems? If he is selling to mostly pet owners they are not likely to take a dog in to be xrayed unless they are showing clinical signs of CHD. Alot of dogs are dysplastic, but their owners would never know it because they show no outward signs.

Find your contract and health guarantee and go over it. That should answer your questions about replacement etc.

PS why do you disagree with the breeder about putting Nelson down if it gets real bad? Would you rather have him suffer in pain because of your own selfishenss? I am all for trying to keep a dog around if you can keep it comfortable with medication but sometimes that just doesn't work and you end up spending a ton of $$ for nothing. How bad is it now? How much does it affect him?

 

[MrsCooper]

Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a breeder to ask for the dog back, before replacing it.
If I was his breeder I would definitely want to see him and his x-rays, especially since he isn't ofa'd or penn hipped. There are not just shady breeders but shady puppy buyers as well.
I think it's a little late to ask for papers on his parents now. I don't know what you guarantee states, but that's what should happen.
You could ask him if he would sell the replacement pup for you and give you the money instead.

 

[Kismet]

"should i be asking for any hard copies of the bloodlines of nelson's parents and their hip scores? what other information should i get from them?"

I'm sorry, but this should have been done before you bought your dog. It could have saved you a lot of heartache and money.

If you have a written guarantee. have a good look at it. most breeders guarantee hips for 1 year, some longer. If the parents were hip checked and the breeder did everything possible to produce a healthy litter, it's not really their fault and they aren't responsible. On the other hand, if they did no health testing and guaranteed your pup than you should get some sort of compensation. But, again it really all comes down to your contract.

 

[PeterC]

First you should have checked for breeder that does hip check. Now you are paying for it.

Second, I think the breeder is honorable if he/she is willing to give you another dog to replace the HD dog, after he has seen the opinion from OFA or penn hip. Some x rays are very obvious, but some vets don't know jack!

So, give the dog back........save yourself the heartache of putting him down later. Hell, some breeders ask the owner to put down the dog and THEN they will replace the dog.

Third, if you are keeping your dog, then you take 100% responsibility for owning him, including all future medical bills. Why should the breeder PARTLY COMPENSATE you? It is all about responsibilites.

Fourth, even IF you got a dog from a hip check breeder, this does happen (albet at a much lower percentage). That is just part of owning an AB. You go through a few before you get a good one.
Sounds cold, but that is just life.

So take the breeder's offer. It seems more than fair. Good breeders are hard to find.........but GOOD OWNERS ARE EVEN HARDER TO FIND.

 

[Kasco]

I have a question....

If a dogs dam and sire are registered good/excellent does that guarantee the pups will be at least good? Or can good/excellent dogs throw off pups that are dysplastic?

 

[MrsCooper]

You can get dogs with HD even after a few generations of x-rayed dogs.
You can't blame a breeder for producing a dog with bad hips if he x-rayed the parents, happens to the best of breeders.
A lot of people also believe that HD is not just genetic, but that nutrition and exercise play a big part. Unfortunately some breeders use that as an excuse not to x-ray.
Anyway, the odds of producing healthy dogs if the parents are x-rayed are better than if you use dogs that haven't been checked.

 

[PeterC]

Don't forget doing the dog's ELBOWS TOO

remember, elbows as well!

 

[Kasco]

Re: Don't forget doing the dog's ELBOWS TOO

remember, elbows as well!

Good point! Elbows overlooked quite a bit.

 

[hhaimerl]

Unfortunately it's not uncommon for a breeder to ask for the dog back, before replacing it.
If I was his breeder I would definitely want to see him and his x-rays, especially since he isn't ofa'd or penn hipped. There are not just shady breeders but shady puppy buyers as well.
I think it's a little late to ask for papers on his parents now. I don't know what you guarantee states, but that's what should happen.
You could ask him if he would sell the replacement pup for you and give you the money instead.

Very good points!
And the breeder does seem to care enough to be having a decent dialogue about the situation...so that is encouraging.

 

[4NGI3]

hey thanks everyone. yea i didn't feel it was the breeder's fault until someone mentioned it and drummed it into my head. the breeders are such lovely people but just after someone said that the breeder should be responsible and since i didn't know much about this stuff, i thought i'd come on here to clarify and for some advice. i thought, "how could the breeder know that the dog had hip probs becuase i've read that proper hip scores can't be done until the dog is 24mths of age or something?" aanyways thanks for your help. nelson's legs are not bothering him, you wouldn't even know he had a problem with all his energy! the specialist said that his hips are not very bad but theyr'e not good either. so he said if the surgery is not affordable for us then to keep his hind leg muscles strong with swimming and glucosamine supplements and cartrophen injections will help prolong his joints.

his legs are not that bad but yes, if it came down to it and nelson was in pain and there was nothing we could do to keep him comfortable, then yes we would have to resort to putting him down. but what i'm saying is that since he is comfortable now and doesn't even notice the problem, its not an option for us.

 

[OEBluver]

I have a question since we're already on the topic, if you can follow my rambles...

It is my understanding that bully breeds are notorous for poor hips, and that a "good" for a bully might be considered "not so good" in another breed(does that make sense?) If I'm wrong, please correct me. So I have always been told that it needed to be a bully specialist who examined the x rays, as vets not familiar with bullys won't be able to judge correctly Is that true,(ah-ha! finally got my question out there!!) or was I fed a line of bull?

 

[4NGI3]

oooh! interesting question! coz i was wondering the same thing because nelson's hips look like the hips on the dog at the bottom of this website that says "Not bad but not good either" and thats exactly what our surgeon said to us about nelson's xrays. http://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/hd.html

so if nelson's hips are "not good" for normal dogs but "ok" for bulldogs then that would make me a happy mummy! if not then i'm back to where i started but atleast this "myth" has been cleared up

 

[MrsCooper]

Poor hips are poor hips no matter what breed. The only difference is that if you have a breed like an EB where there are no excellent hips an OFA good or even a fair is breed worthy on the other side if you have a Greyhound where almost 70% have an OFA excellent a rating of good or fair is not so good just because there are so many dogs with better hips out there.
I as well as many other have learned my lesson and would only have my dogs x-rayed by an orthopedic specialist, to many regular vets don't have a clue.
Don't know if your vet is specialized or not, but if he isn't I would take Nelson's x-rays and get a second opinion.
He is still very young if he has not so good hips now, at 2 they could be bad or they could stay just the way they are now. I would put him on supplement and have him x-rayed again when he is full grown, unless of course he is starting to have problems then I would take him to see a specialist sooner.