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Raw VS. Kibble

10K views 44 replies 16 participants last post by  3 PITS and a PEI 
#1 · (Edited)
I figured this topic could go on for quite a while. It's another topic that pops up quite frequently, and I think this could be a good source of info for anyone looking for alternative food sources for their dog.

Help dispel some of the myths associated with raw feeding(my fave is "It will make the dog mean") and how to ensure that you get the perfect balance for your dog. Any sources you can share would be awesome as well!

Also, what are the pros and cons of feeding kibble? Is it a good idea to mix the two, and feed half raw and half kibble? Does kibble contain everything that a dog needs?
 
#2 ·
Great topic! I personally feed both kibble (TOW) and Raw; I am interested in reading and gathering more information.

I think that Raw is probably best but right now I don't have the storage space for feeding 4 dogs an all Raw diet.

I do notice that my dogs eat Raw with much more enthusiasm than they EVER have shown towards kibble. And as any multiple dog home can appreciate....less scooping in the yard :)
 
#3 ·
i think i've gone overboard having one stand up freezer, one chest freezer and a fridge (for defrosting) all dedicated for 2 dog's raw food! LOL. but i have a big basement!!
it makes it sooo easy, buy in bulk and when things go on sale.
 
#4 ·
We're switching our dogs to raw. I have an order in at a meat market for 160# pounds @ $78 and some change. I also buy stuff on sale from the discount grocers. An example would be 10# bags of chicken leg quaters for $4.40. I also purchased a chest freezer 24" wide by 60" long by 36" deep (craigslist ftw) for $75. I just hope all the food lasts 6 weeks for 5 dogs
 
#5 ·
So, how would one go about switching? I know very little about raw, I've read some. How do you know how much to feed each dog, and what proportion of bone/organ/etc.

Do you make the switch gradually, or just when they run out of kibble?
 
#9 ·
I found books very helpful, such as "Give a dog a bone" and Switching to raw by Susan K. Johnson. I don't have a problem with kibble but when we're talking 5 dogs quality kibble becomes cost prohibitted. What I'm spending on 160# of raw is what I was spending on 60 pounds of kibble.
 
#6 ·
I am curious as to why this thread is titled "Raw vs Kibble"?

Is this meant to be a thread on the pros and cons of each like the title implies or is this strictly meant to be a thread on the benefits of a raw diet? I guess I am just confused as to why kibble is used in the title?
 
#7 ·
Pros and cons of each.

We currently feed kibble because it's convenient for us, and I know next to nothing about raw. I'm interested in learning more about raw.

I'll edit the OP to include kibble pros vs cons. This is what I get for multi-tasking!

Don't you feed kibble Lisa? I know you talk about using the pup's food for training, I assume that kibble makes that a little easier. I just want to learn what I can about raw. We probably won't put Haus on a raw diet, but I'd like the knowledge for future reference.
 
#27 ·
Thanks Tasha.

Yes, I do feed kibble but I do supplement with a small amount of "human stuff"...maybe around 10-20%?? lots of eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, canned fish, meat scraps etc... nothing that requires too much work or costs too much.

At one time I dabbled in raw..I was feeding a lot of chick backs/necks, raw beef, organ meat, along with ground veggies and the other stuff I mentioned above. I didn't see a different in my dogs to warrant the extra time involved and yes, using food in training is also a big reason why I like kibble.

I honestly have nothing against raw feeding. I think what bothers me the most is when people blame diet for a dogs health problems..IMO dogs should be able to eat whatever..almost like a scavenger, yet remain healthy. If this means kibble is part of the diet so be it..lots of dogs have lived long lives on Pedigree or Ole' Roy...to me that speaks volumes. Whenever I see a breeder that is a big raw food advocate, red flags go up...why do they feed raw? Is it because their dogs don't have good enough digestive systems to to do well on kibble? That is the magic question. I don't like when breeders make excuses for poor temperament and I don't like how they make excuses to justify allergies and poor digestion either..the good ones shouldn't need any special diets or coddling. It's almost as if pet buyers have been brainwashed into expecting their dogs to have problems if they don't do this or don't do that. I think that's sad.

If you have a dog that can only do well on raw, THEN BY ALL MEANS FEED IT SO THEY CAN BE HEALTHY, but at the same time I don't think people should EXPECT to feed raw in order for their dogs to do well. JMO.
 
#8 ·
truth be told, i miss feeding kibble. So easy, you buy a bag, and just toss down some food. Plus you can use their kibble for treats and training. Cant do that with raw.
With raw, i'm always cutting up meat and bagging. Then i have to go down to basement every day and get their food from the freezers and thaw. Plus it's messy when i feed (i hand feed inside when it's cold/rainy outside) and blood drips onto the floor. I got to make sure their portions are correct. Kibble is a no-brainer! LOL

But......raw is what is best for my dogs so i go thru "the trouble" of feeding it. and i dont think i could ever feed kibble to any dog again.
The farting is very minimal, the poops and pooping is minimal, skin and coat look great, the teeth are clean and white and allergies gone!
 
#10 ·
having raw fed for a while, going back to kibble, and now back to raw, i can tell you it gets WORLDS easier once you get the hang of it.
honestly, i don't even THINK about dog meals anymore. the single hardest part of the dogs diet is the thawing and packaging. thats it. and its easily solved by spending ONE afternoon a week, and seperating the food into meals, bagging each "meal" and thats it.

after you do it for a while, you stop thinking about ratios, percentages, etc. You start to think-"well, its been about 3-4 days since fido has had some organ meat, i suppose that will be this meal", "the last few meals have been lacking in bone, today they will just get ox tails" or"im feeling a bit lazy, and he hasn't had some yet this week, so i will open this can of salmon and feed that", it really grows on you, and you don't give much thought after a while.

the general "amount" for an adult dog is 2-3% of their ideal weight. puppies are more, but i can't remember off the top of my head.
again, with this, i "eyeball" it at this point. I feed what i feel is an appropriately sized meal, and i watch their body shape. if the morning meal is a bit large, they just get a bone that night, if they eat something SUPER big, or hearty, i will fast them for a day or so.

yes, raw is AT FIRST more difficult, or more involved that kibble, and unless you are hand feeding like sara, once you get the hang of it, its not a big deal anymore.
Now, don't get me wrong, im not advocating not doing your research, and just winging it from the start. Please do. plan meals, if you'd like, some of us can give you some sample meals we do.
But, after a few months giv eor take, you will fall into your routine, you won't have to weigh meals, you will start to be able to look at a chicken back, or whatnot and tell if its just one meal, enough for a whole day, etc.
 
#11 ·
i am anal and i still weigh the dog's meals for every day. I mean, i have necks bagged up into 10 ounces each, ground beef into 3 oz. bags, heart into 8 oz, tripe into 8oz...etc. That way i can just reach in and get one bone source and know i need one other bag of meat for each and then Orson gets one extra bag of ground beef.
i also have a set schedule of what i feed each day, pork one day, kidney another, heart another, etc.
the little one gets 16 oz and O gets 22 oz
(although Lo is not so little anymore at 55 lbs and O isnt so big anymore at 65 lbs) LOL

that's just what works for me, a routine. alot do eyeball the food being fed like Moose said. I just found that to be easiest for me :)
 
#15 · (Edited)
We currently feed Mater kibble but once we get our own place with more room for storage of bulk meat we will switch Mater over to raw... hate dealing with allergies.

It's not all that easy with kibble because of allergies. When your budget isn't the greatest it's hard to find a good kibble.
 
#17 ·
I am not sure there are any obvious signs that MY dogs do better on raw than kibble. I really like the idea of dogs/meat. It just seems to make more sense, more natural.

Yes, they enjoy it but as Orsondogge said, it does take time and research. I usually cut and bag the day I purchase into a gallon freezer bag which fits enough for four dogs. I don't weigh or really plan as carefully as some. I eyeball it like MM. I throw in organs every couple of days. I do however try to keep the meat/bone ration daily.

Of course we on a " don't ask, don't tell" policy with our vet in regard to raw. He doesn't believe dogs should ever eat any bones! He knows I feed raw but I tire of the scolding so we just don't discuss it unless its pertinent to the problem.

Some days I feed all raw, somedays all kibble and somedays both. It just depends on freezer stock, activity level and weight issues and who is feeding them; me or hubby.
 
#19 ·
SCORE!!!!!!

Borrowed a skill saw from my neighbor today, as I was returning it she made a point to stock me up on home bred/slaughtered beef and some venison. All told I got about 100 pounds of FREE dog food. It is mostly T-bone and LOTS of ground beef . Raw is on the menu this week!!!!
 
#20 ·
I got started on raw because Sirius couldn't hold his weight on kibble, he was deathly skinny. We tried all different types of kibble and finally I gave in and tried raw, and lo and behold it solved the problem! When Shelby came along she just ate raw because that's what Sirius was on, and after he left we tried kibble again because admittedly it's a bit easier (not cheaper for us though!). WELL, she got serial and chronic staph infections which we are now STILL dealing with the side effects from the entire time we were on kibble. We switched back to raw, cleared up the last staph infection and it hasn't come back since. :dontknow:

I kind of do raw like Moose does, I admit I mostly just feed chicken because that's what I can afford, but I feel a raw diet of chicken only (just for now) is better for my individual dog than the best kibble out there because of her allergies. I sort of eyeball it, I know what a pound of chicken quarters looks like. The organs have to be weighed, I'm no good at eyeballing ounces :lol:
 
#21 ·
I got started on raw because Sirius couldn't hold his weight on kibble, he was deathly skinny. We tried all different types of kibble and finally I gave in and tried raw, and lo and behold it solved the problem! When Shelby came along she just ate raw because that's what Sirius was on, and after he left we tried kibble again because admittedly it's a bit easier (not cheaper for us though!). WELL, she got serial and chronic staph infections which we are now STILL dealing with the side effects from the entire time we were on kibble. We switched back to raw, cleared up the last staph infection and it hasn't come back since. :dontknow:
yup, that is exactly why i switched Orson to raw. He was getting chronic staff infections and hair loss (along his back). He had to take anti-biotics every month.
 
#22 ·
On average - how much a month do you guys with two dogs spend feeding raw? I have been trying to convince Mark we should feed raw for years and he thinks it will be too expensive and time consuming. But it sounds like if we pre-portion out like Sara does and have it ready to go then its really only time consuming on the day we break things down. We also got a full stand up freezer recently so we have the room now to store stuff.
 
#35 ·
i actually dont know how much i spend as it seems like i'm always buying raw (whenever i see a good price, i snatch it up).
but i try to keep it at $1.50 and below per pound and i feed about 71 lbs per month so thats equal to about $106 per month at $1.50/lb for 2 dogs, give or take a few bucks.

Lo is 53 and Orson is 65 so, Jen, you might feed about the same amount as i do.
 
#24 ·
I feed roughly 30 pounds a week. Last week I bought 300 pounds of chicken at .39 cents a pound thats about $120. Last night a neighbor gave me about 100 pounds of beef FREE and I already have about 30 pounds of FREE venison. My neighbor also promised me Bass this week so all I need now is about $20 worth of liver and such.

thats 430 pounds of food for $140 which lasts about 4 months. That works out to about $35 a month for 3 pits and a pei. When I feed kibble TOW costs me about $45 a bag which lasts about 1 week, which is $180.

Now it does not always work so cheaply but sales and generous friends can really make a difference. Like TMP said, bad planning can raise your price a LOT!

It doesn't really take that much prep., I usually bag the day I bring food home , which I usually do for hubby and I anyway. I just put their food in the fridge to thaw when I finish the dinner dishes.
 
#25 ·
I would switch to Raw. Problem is Fridge space and Price. However, I have been doing a lot of reading (Thanks everyone on the ideas and links). Sally will be starting a Raw/Kibble diet. However, I am still not sure how to do it. Funny thing is I am starting her on veggies (Raw) when we eat them...the greens make sally fart like none other. She likes them and the vet said she would be fine to eat raw veggies and some fruit (I have a list of what not to feed her at home). I really want to go complete Raw, but the wife says we cannot feed the dog better than our kids eat…lol
 
#28 ·
Lisa, would you rather see a breeder of good healthy working dogs feed kibble or raw? I'm just curious because when I graduate and have some more free time I really want to get into working dogs (not sure what kind of work yet, still researching). If I get some good dogs that prove themselves worthy for breeding, I would like to breed them. But I also want to feed my dogs raw. Would that cause red flags to go up?
 
#29 ·
I am by no means saying that all breeders who feed raw are doing so to cover up digestive problems/food allergies in their lines. HOWEVER I do believe this is the case with some so when I see a breeder who is a strong advocate of the raw diet...I wonder; and would definitely question them if I was considering a puppy from them.

Look how many pet owners on this forum alone that feed a raw diet due to the fact their dogs can NOT eat kibble. Obviously there must be breeders who encounter the same problem as well?. What I like to know is... how do they handle that? Do they cull those dogs from breeding or do they breed them anyways and cover up the problem by feeding raw and demanding (I have heard of breeders who will not guarantee their puppies unless their new owners feed them raw) their puppy buyers feed raw too?
 
#30 ·
I don't want to turn this thread into a breeding ethics post but is it ethically wrong to breed a dog that has allergies even if they are healthy otherwise? I mean any dog can develop allergies just like people develop allergies. If you want we can PM about this if you would like.

I will say that it is wrong to not guarantee a puppy to someone if they refuse to feed raw.
 
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