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I would like to open up the topic of rescue versus buying from breeder when getting a new dog.

I personally have stated on a number of occasions that I will always rescue. I think if you are getting a pet ONLY, there is no reason one would need to pay thousands of dollars for a purebred dog. If one is looking to show or work then I feel they have a good reason to want a proven dog. I love my rescues and could give a crap where they come from or who their parents were.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I used to totally agree with you steph. Not so much anymore.

When looking for a pet do I on some moral level think people should rescue? Yeah sorta. But honestly if they want a purebred, I don't really care. It's their dog and their choice.

For work, I will get dogs from breeders. Whether or not I buy them is irrelevant.

Eta: out of 4 dogs my single rescue is the second most expensive. Interesting huh?
I do agree that well bred dogs are more healthy. However, the average pet owner usually doesn't know what to look for in a breeder. A guy jon works with bought his two boxers from a pet store called "Puppyworld". If he did any amount of research before buying his dogs, he would have chosen rescue over a pet store dog. I can't even count on both hands how many times I have spoken to people who don't know their ass from their elbow let alone how to properly manage a dog (ie hygiene, health, temperament), yet insists on purchasing their dog from a breeder. Why? What are you doing with this dog thats so important that you need it to be perfect? My mom got her dog from a rescue. He's nervy, but she hasnt had ANY health problems with him. She takes excellent care of the dog and hes in great condition. So my problem with some people that insist on buying from a breeder is that they dont even know what the hell to look for in the first place. They usually just go with the cheapest or cutest or closest one with no regard to the legitimate reasons one would go to a breeder in the first place. Here on BDB, most of us know better. But lets be honest, how many other dog owners out there are like us?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you want a dog that lives up to it's breed description then your better off going with the pedigreed dog. Sure you can find dogs that look the part but it's a huge crap shoot at best. No ancestors to research potential health or temperament issues. Virtually no recourse when you get a crapper. Sure I've got $4200 vested in 3 dogs but the last 2 I got were free.
I don't care about my dog living up to its breed description. An OEB has so many description out there anyways, its impossible to know which one is correct anyways.

I do understand everyone, no matter how dumb the reasoning is, to own a proven dog. Why do I need papers? So I can show them to the neighbors across the street? Who the hell cares? I do understand the health and temperament concerns people have with rescues. But A) you dont have to go into the pound and pick out a dog in ten minutes. There are rescue groups with fostered dogs that you can see what the temperament is like right off the bat. B) As far as health problems go with bully breeds- they all can have problems. How many people have been on here that paid 2500 for a dog with cherry eye and hip dys., and allergies and the whole nine yards? We can say "oh they went to a crappy breeder" and that may be true but the truth remains "they went to a BREEDER".

I'm exhausted and can't even think straight right now, but I am interested to hear what will be said. And remember, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Diversity makes the world go round. And im done..........:dontknow:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you don't care about a dog living up to its breed description then why bully breeds? why not a toy poodle or a lab.

I care about my dogs living up to their breed description, that's why I choose one breed over another. Its really the only difference between domestic dogs... temperament/structure/appearance/health. You want those to be what you are expecting with a breed, or you wouldn't care what breed of dog it is (or resembles)

Its a big reason why dogs are taken to shelters, because they are not what the owner expected they are not living up to their breed description and its the fault of the breeder focusing on a color pattern over a temperament trait.

If 95% of dogs were what the owner was expecting and prepared for then we wouldn't have these shelter problems in North America.

I personally would not buy a strong breed (puppy or adult) from a rescue, I can't risk have a strong powerful dog with a genetic faulty temperament.
I feel that is completely false. People buy dogs because they are cute and fluffy and get rid of them because they don't have anymore time for them. I have known so many people that just got married and they want to wait for children but decide to get a dog instead. 2 years down the road, they have kids and don't have time to walk, play with, or spend time with the dog. The dog becomes restless, bored, lonely and start causing problems. So, they get rid of it. I highly doubt that shelters are filled up because a breed didn't fulfill an expectation. Most people don't even know what their breed expectation is. And who makes up these expectations? Some people have ridiculous expectations for dogs. They are not cats. They need attention, guidance, and love. Its not the dogs fault the owner didn't put the required time or energy into the dog.

I think a huge mistake lots of dog owners make as well is getting dog for their kids. KIDS CANNOT PROPERLY CARE FOR DOGS BY THEMSELVES. They do not have the sense of responsibility it takes to do that. A child can barely remember to brush his teeth, let alone look out for the welfare of his or her own puppy. Parents make this mistake A LOT and the kid ends up losing interest and bye bye doggy.

If dogs could take care of themselves, the shelters wouldn't be filled up like they are. But they can't and people don't seem to realize this. We created the domestic dog to depend on humans. When we give up on them, they cannot survive.

Oh and good shelters do temperament testing before putting dogs up for adoption. The ones with faulty temps are put down. Maybe I should give Lucy back and have her put down because she could become really viscous! And bite my head off in my sleep.

Sarah, if im not mistaken, your mastiff breed is a mix of some kind. Hows his temperament?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The whole children thing is an interesting one. I am not disagreeing with you adrienne, as I do not have children and I don't know how I would feel when I do have children. And I agree when you mix bully breeds and babies, it can become dicey.

I do wonder though how many people claim they can't trust their rescue bully or any breed for that matter around their children and how many actually just know how to manage children with dogs. They let the kid torture the dog to no end and they first growl they hear its death to Fido.

I am 100% on board with euthanizing HA dogs. Its not good for anyone. But how many dogs become HA after children are introduced? Some? None?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think you mix ANY dog and children, it's dicey.

We took a really good class prior to ever having the kid about how to deal with dogs and children. A lot of the information presented was what we already knew, but it was amazing what the "average" dog owner doesn't know/think of.

And I digress, I think that the rescue thing just isn't FOR me. Regardless of children. But ESPECIALLY now that I DO. Perhaps one day, if I went in and just fell in love with the perfect dog, and could read it to the best of MY abilities, I would (I'm not saying I'm steadfast 110% NOT ever going to rescue). It's just not for me NOW. Or in the foreseeable future (I suppose if this is something I go against my word on, it's not a BAD thing). ;)

Oh, and with regards to the cousin and her children...it's not the children that are going to cause it to snap...it's a dominant dog that has no rules and guidelines, and snaps at anyone who attempts to get it to do "the right thing".
Would you feel different if it was a dog that had been in foster care with other dogs and children for some time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I don't trust shelters either, I have worked with them and most of the people heavily involved see things through rose colored glasses. They will do anything to save a dog, even a dangerous one.

My mastiff has an OK temperament, she is for the most part what a mastiff should be but she has a nervous streak (not enough to make her dangerous), but she is a good example why I would not risk a dog without viewing the background of the dog again.

Its the breeders job to weed out the uneducated buyers, if a buyer does not have realistic expectations of a dog or does not even understand the temperament traits then they shouldn't have one.
No. It is the REPUTABLE breeders job to do that. How many of those are there exactly? And where do shelter dogs come from? Sure some come from accidental breeding or strays, however, surrendered dogs do come from families that purchased from a breeder. From a good one? Who knows.

Personally, I think its a crapshoot with any dog, breeder or rescue. There are bad apples everywhere. But I enjoy managing and shaping my dogs. I put in the effort and so far have gotten good end results. My entire family has rescue dogs. We have had no problems thus far.

To me its a shame that people can get things that are "shiny and new" screw them up because they are lazy and don't care, and then throw them away. Then its up to others to pick up the pieces, some of which cannot be put back together again.

I dont think shelters are against reputable breeders. Why would they be?

If we didn't have shelter or rescues, where would all the dogs go? People would keep breeding. BYB's wouldnt stop, puppy mills wouldnt stop. So where would all the dogs go I wonder?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I don't think it's people accepting less than, it's people not being informed to KNOW they are accepting less than. Until ALL the people in this world who want a dog jump in, and learn, that cycle will continue (and lord knows that just ain't gonna happen, right?). And I don't begrudge them for it, they don't know any better.
Agreed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I don't see anyone stating that rescues shouldn't exist. Just giving personal opinions on whether they would adopt a shelter/rescue dog. And why.

Unfortunately, there should be more stringent rules and restrictions placed on ALL shelters, IMO, with regards to WHO can adopt, their backgrounds, as well as the employees that are evaluating and handling the animal. But, there isn't enough time in the day, or money.
I didnt say that anyone said that. Just a point I am trying to make. Obviously they are necessary. And I completely agree that some are run poorly. Just like some breeders run their program poorly as well.

I get sort of annoyed by people that snub their nose at me because I have broken dogs and they have papers. Any dogs can get papers. That doesn't mean shiz to me. Papers don't make a dog, the dog does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
rescue dogs have a place, its just not with me.

there are many people who love a broken dog and will go to the ends of the earth to fix them, that's fine if that's what floats their boat but it doesn't float mine.

Breeders producing less then favorable dogs would not be doing it if they didn't have buyers, so its a cycle that will continue as long as people keep accepting "less than" with the dogs they own and puppies they buy.
Thats fine and dandy. And not saying this about you, but some people will then snub their nose at me because of my reject dogs when I am just doing something I believe in just as much as they believe in breeders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
There is nothing to snub.

A dog is a dog at the end of the day and we make them what they are (bad or good)

Its great when people choose to rescue but a lot of hardcore rescue people can't see the other side of the coin, and vice versa with breeders and those who are heavily into a certain "type" of dog.

This thread reminds me of this woman I used to do rescue with, she was so nutty. she had 4 dogs all old as god. She pushed 2 of them around in a baby carriage lol. Not really related to the thread but every time I read a post I think of how nutty she was and how glad I am that I don't deal with her anymore.

But I also met a great lady through rescue, she was realistic, not bitter, she was to the point and knew a lot about dogs, I learned a lot from her and still do, although she is not involved anymore (couldn't take the nutters which is a shame) I remember my first experience with a biter, I called her up to ask her about it and before I even finished my sentence she told me to put the dog down, gave me a list of reasons why and although at the time I didn't understand why anyone involved with rescue would not want to try and save every dog... but I get it now and she was right on the money. She always used to tell me that you can't save every dog, and its so true.
I agree with all of the above. I used to be a crazy rescue person, however I now know not to be. Fact is, there are way too many dogs out there that are good candidates for pets. The pitbull rescue I work with here ONLY saves dogs that have been temperament tested and show no aggression. Then they are further evaluated in the foster home. And then kept by foster failures like me :) If we keep dogs in shelters that are HA, FA, whatever, we are taking up valuable space for dogs that should be there. WE won't be able to save them all, but we can help save the good ones. Like most other debatable things, I think you have to reach a happy medium. I don't look down on people that buy from REPUTABLE breeders at all, as I would expect not to be looked down on for owning rescues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
So your whole question stemmed from the fact that you're tired of being slighted by people that look down their noses at you for owning rescues? I say f 'em. What do you care, and why should you care? At the end of the day it's YOUR dog, not theirs. And odds are, they are an inexperienced owner, with a "papered" dog (that my cat will pee on). BFD. Seriously. BUT, I don't look down my nose at those that buy from any kind of breeder. I ONLY look down my nose if they are educated and continue to buy from any old breeder. But most are ignorant (myself included), and should not be judged upon something they have no knowledge of.
No. I posted this as a topic in the debate discussion suggestion thread awhile ago. Someone asked me to open it up, so I did.

And I do judge the ignorant ones to some degree. The reason BYB's are in business and making money is because people are ignorant and buy whatever is cheapest or closest or cutest. And people continue to be ignorant about it. Its pretty easy to find info about what to look for in a good breeder. Type it in google, and even two of the stickies in the general/misc section on this forum will pop up. I agree some people get burned even when doing their research and having all the best intentions. But I just dont understand how people can go to a BYB, get a crappy dog with all sorts of problems, and then when I mention rescue dogs, tell me that they couldnt take that risk. The risk of getting a crappy dog? Oh. Glad that worked out for you. :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Hey now, I resemble that remark! :lol::lol:
Giving our current situation, I'm watching for threads involving dogs/kids..
Probably the biggest reasons that we bought a dog from a breeder is: 1) We bought into the misconceptions about rescues. 2) Like Sarah posted, an unstable AB can be one dangerous critter, so we thought we were hedging our bets by knowing the dog's pedigree :roll: 3) We fell in love with the breed after meeting only one dog (our neighbor's dog who by the way was from a really crappy BYB) and made our decision from just that and lots of internet research.
That may be true but I bet you will still care for your dog when you do have children and not lose interest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I guess I dont really care so much about people judging me as I am annoyed by the pot calling th kettle black factor. You (not anyone on here, just general) have a dog from a shitty BYB and could do no research at all on breeders, however you know you don't want a rescue because its risky? That makes no sense to me. Where did you get your information from? Because clearly you didnt get any information on breeders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
How do you judge someone that knows no better? That seems illogical. The simplest definition of ignorance is un-informed. How can you possibly judge someone that DOESN'T know? The only way you can RIGHTFULLY judge is if someone DOES know, and continues TO. Joe Dog owner doesn't realize that by purchasing a dog from their neighbor, they are contributing to that person more than likely spitting out more pups. They don't realize the implications that could possibly arise from that sale. ONCE they know, THEN blame them. Do you REALLY think that people do their research prior to purchasing? No. We are the EXCEPTION not the rule. Most people want a cute fluffy, and they want it NOW. The idea of googling what does or does not make a good breeder never crosses their mind. The only thing that crosses their mind is googling "American Bulldog breeder in San Diego".

I'll have you know I'm a very thorough, intelligent, and well researched person when it comes to purchasing items. We looked and researched for over a year when it came to purchasing our truck, and the same applied for subsequent vehicles. I PRIDE myself on doing my homework, IF I know what homework I'm to be doing! When it came to buying Atticus, all I knew of was to NOT buy from a pet store, and that was about it. I scoured the newspaper classifieds for breeders, and then thought I had hit the jackpot when I saw the ad for him. It had all kinds of fancy schmancy titles and a kennel, etc. I thought I was doing my homework when I googled the kennel name. In reality, I didn't know SMACK. NOW, after LEARNING from here, I will NEVER make that same mistake. And IF I do, then I can be judged.

And honestly, if YOU love your dog, and YOU are happy with your dog, tell those that look down their noses to piss up a rope.
But isnt that the problem? I mean, ignorance is a problem. Of course I was once ignorant and still am about many things, but I'm being judged. I don't care that I am, but I know that I am. How many times did I get chewed out on here? I dont hold it against anyone. If they hadnt done it, I wouldnt know what I do now. Why do we get embarrassed when someone busts us out for being stupid? Because no one wants to be ignorant. I'm not holding it against anyone, however I am calling it like it is. Everyone makes mistakes I know, but how do we ever learn from them if someone doesnt call us out?

And I absolutely 100% agree we are the exception, not the rule. And it's unfortunate. Which is why I think it's important to start threads like this to educate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Eh we both have. I think my irritation with ignorance is partially due to my age. Im 23 and have just begun to realize things about life. That it sucks and is not fair.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Life is a product of the choices you make. Only you can make it not suck. ;)
I'm happy with my life, however it's not just my choices that can make it sucky. Peoples dumb decisions affect my life everyday. It's whether I choose to let it affect me that decides how sucky it can be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I find it hard to believe you are only 23. You are, in my opinion so wise and knowledgeable about dogs. Sorry, that sounds as if Im saying 23 year olds are dumb....Im not. Just most of the 20 odd year olds I know (my eldest son is 20) wouldnt have half the insight you do, nor care as much. :)
And now Ive strayed off topic. Sorry.
Oh why thank you. I am indeed 23. My bday is march 3rd 1988. And pretty much 90% of my knowledge simply comes from reading stuff on here. You will soon be just as knowledgable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
And I'll add that Cassie (mstngchic) and Alison (foreverpit) are around my age and even more knowledgable than I! ;)
 
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