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Discussion Starter · #1 ·


Please help. Our 6 month old AB has a serious problem with the runs. She went to the vet to rule out intestinal paricites and was put on Flagal for a couple of weeks to be sure. Her stool firmed up a little but now she is back and forth again. Her stool ranges from liquid to soft and is hit or miss.

We have been feeding her Merrick Puppy Plate (about 5 cups per day) often mixed with a few scoops of any variety of Merrick canned food. Every time we ask anyone for advice we get a completely different answer. The vet had us add cooked chicken and rice to her kibble with seemingly negative results. The list of things people say she could be allergic to is nuts. She could be allergic to breathing if you know what I mean.

We are putting her on a temporary diet of Evangers Cooked Chicken mixed with pumpkin, cooked oatmeal, and a scoop of plain yogurt. This was recommended by a person who runs an all natural pet food store and her advice came highly recommended. Her angle is to eliminate as many possible sources or allergic reaction while still providing nutrition. We hope she isn't allergic to chicken, pumpkin, oatmeal, or yogurt.

Has anyone hed a broblem like this or any other advice on what she's allergic to?
 

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We are putting her on a temporary diet of Evangers Cooked Chicken mixed with pumpkin, cooked oatmeal, and a scoop of plain yogurt. This was recommended by a person who runs an all natural pet food store and her advice came highly recommended. Her angle is to eliminate as many possible sources or allergic reaction while still providing nutrition. We hope she isn't allergic to chicken, pumpkin, oatmeal, or yogurt.
I have never heard of that mix but I have heard of starting to add foods slowly to figure out what she is alergic to......I don't know if this applies to dogs but my best friend's father is a doctor and he recommends yogurt for diaherra since the digestive system is his specialty I never questioned it...it just works........I think it has something to do with the live cultures and bacteria, but I can say from personal experience it works.......Has your Vet tested for giardia it is often overlooked but it causes long periods of diaherria......Has she always been on the food that you are feeding her?
 

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Well it sounds like the food you are feeding her is a high quality kibble. Since it is high quality, you don't need to feed as much (especailly as much as the bag says) because she is getting more nutrition then crap foods. So there is a possibility that she is just getting too much food and her body cannot handle it.

also, another person on here found out that their dog was allergic to chicken, he had been throwing up all the time. They put him on DVP duck and potatoe I believe and he cleared up almost instantly
 

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Kate said:
Well it sounds like the food you are feeding her is a high quality kibble. Since it is high quality, you don't need to feed as much (especailly as much as the bag says) because she is getting more nutrition then crap foods. So there is a possibility that she is just getting too much food and her body cannot handle it.
5 cups is ALOT of food - our 100lb. GSD eats only 2 cups AM and 2 cups PM, for a total of 4 cups daily. I'd cut the food back and see if that helps. Puppies and pups especially have a tough time digesting the "overflow" of food intake.

We have been feeding her Merrick Puppy Plate (about 5 cups per day) often mixed with a few scoops of any variety of Merrick canned food.
It does sound like you may be giving the dog too much. A pup that size maybe, 1 cup AM and 1 cup PM.
 

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I also agree that it sounds like you may be over feeding. Also, some dogs are just a little sensitvie when it comes to what their systems can handle. My bitch can eat just about any brand of kibble with out a problem where as my male often has difficulty with soft stool, gas etc. You could try switching to another kibble and feeding a little less and see what happens.
 

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Merrick is an excellent quality kibble (one of the best), but like Lisa said, some dogs just don't tolerate all of the ingredients well. Merrick has a lot of veggies and fruits that just may not be agreeing with your pup.
 

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I agree with the other posts. Maybe feed less and also try a different formula with a completely different meat source to find out if it is the chicken.

When I first got Bogart, I was feeding him a formula with chicken. I noticed he always had soft poop, so I decided to try a different brand. At the time, I didn't think it was chicken, I just thought it was the brand, so when I started this new brand, I also started giving some cut up boiled chicken for extra protein. When I switched his food, he still had the soft poop. I decided to stop giving him the chicken. Well, guess what, his loaves firmed up almost immediately! I figured out it must be chicken because that was the main protein source in the first food I was feeding him and when I stopped giving him the boiled chicken during the second brand, his soft poop stopped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all the tips. I will cut back on the amount I feed her. As I thought about all of your replies it hit me that this problem became aparent when we swithed her to two meals a day from three. I increased the amount per meal rather than simply eliminating the lunch. She is healthy and happy in every other way and continues to gain weight. She is just under seventy pounds now. I may just be a sucker dad and overfeeding.

If the chicken thing does not help we plan on switching to kibble with another meat source and possibly one without grains. Has anyone been using Timberwolf?
 

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Hmmm...well maybe 5 cups isn't too much then. I didn't realize your dog weighs 70 pounds. Bogart eats 4 cups a day (split into 3 meals). He is very lean, and the vet said that he is perfect in weight. I would check with your vet to see if you should cut back.
 

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Some dogs do not tolerate grains at all. I would be more suspicious of that than anything else. My dog, Chico is really sensitive. We had him on DVP Duck and potato and that seemed to do the trick for us. If you are going to do a home cooked thing to try and rule out food allergies, I would try a protein and a grain that your dog has never tried. For instance turkey and barley. I would skip the yogurt just to keep it simple and supplement with some digestive enzymes and probiotics. Yogurt doesn't have enough enzymes in it to do the trick, I mostly feed that as a treat.

I just started buying my supplements from this company and I think their prices are really good. The owner, Lew, is very helpful. You can e-mail her and she will definitly get back to you with some help. They have both enzymes and probiotics that are very good quality.

Amber
 

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Andrew said:
Thanks for all the tips. I will cut back on the amount I feed her. As I thought about all of your replies it hit me that this problem became aparent when we swithed her to two meals a day from three. I increased the amount per meal rather than simply eliminating the lunch. She is healthy and happy in every other way and continues to gain weight. She is just under seventy pounds now. I may just be a sucker dad and overfeeding.

If the chicken thing does not help we plan on switching to kibble with another meat source and possibly one without grains. Has anyone been using Timberwolf?
If it is too much food it ought to correct itself soon - you want a growing dog, esp. a larger breed, to remain somewhat lean in order to allow it's joints to grow slowly.
 

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Sounds like a lot of food.... Patch is on California Natural Lamb and Rice puppy formula and is doing well on it. Sometimes he has the chicken variety and he does well with that too. I was told California Natural was really good for dogs prone to digestive and skin problems...

I have found that when we give Patch home cooked meals like chicken or lamb mince and rice and pasta with some veggies, his stool gets a little softer and smellier than usual... so i think we will just stick with kibble and raw meaty bones.

My husband laughs at me when he sees me smelling Patch's poop.... i try to explain that I learned from this site that hard and less smelly popps mean the dog is healthier! So there's a reason why i'm smelling it!!!

;)
 

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I would definitely cut back on the amount. My 100 pound male AB only gets 3 cups daily and my 2, 70 pound female AB's only get 1 1/2 to 2 cups daily. 70 pounds on a 6 month old female sounds a bit heavy to me. You really want to keep big dogs lean as they grow..most prefer to see a rib or two and a nice tuck in the tummy area. Heavy weight on growing dogs can lead to many growth problems, including dysplasia. Every dog is different in the amount they need though..I only use the bag as a guideline and really adjust per dog..what thier activity level is, metabolism,etc. The key is just to see a healthy, lean animal...not a pudgy one!

As for your dilemna..I would cut out the wet food...I recommend wet food only as a treat or to help with sick dogs(to gain weight or disguise meds). Try the suggested cooked diet with some probiotics and see how she does. I agree that some dogs just don't handle certain foods well, no matter how good they are. I highly recommend the DVP Duck and Potato once you see how your girl does on the current cooked diet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·



Our baby is quite large for the breed. This is genetic however and not because she's a fatty. Our vet has a scale of 1-9 that they use to grade the weight of our puppy. One being she need's an IV stat and 9 meaning she looks like a sausage and needs lipo. Sayde has been a 5 for her last several visits although she was a 3.5 to 4 early on and it was suggested we increase her food. We may have gone to far though.

I think (I could be wrong) that the average weight for females of the AB breed is 80 to 100 pounds and 100 to 120 for the males. Sayde Mae's mom was 120lbs. however and her father a bit larger. Her brother Addicus, who we stay in touch with for play dates, already outweighs a friends two year old male AB named Pete. Although Pete is relatively small I think an 85 pound plus 6 month old would be considered on the large side.

We tried the chicken, oatmeal, pumpkin, and yogurt for dinner last evening and we actually got a normal poop already this morning. She had the same b-fast and we will keep our fingers crossed for similar results.

This web site is great. It is nice that everyone is willing to offer their suggestions.
 

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Size is genetic and it depends on the bloodlines, but it isn't all that common to see AB's weighing into the 100's, especially females. I have seen females weigh as little as 55 pounds on up to 110 (but average about 65-85) males as little as 65 pounds on up to 130 (but average 75-95) Most breeders who claim to have dogs over 115 pounds are usually full of boloney, or thier dogs are obese..again, not all, I know what lines out there have that size...but, the average AB is generally not that big. The looks of these guys can be decieveing..I have been to shows where they claimed a certain dogs were 130 pounds or more...when the dogs were weighed at the scale, they were 85-98 pounds..that's a big difference! The breed was meant to be a working breed and a dog over 100 pounds will just not be as agile and have the stamina and precision that an 80 pounder will. My dogs are Johnson type, and one of my largest males, Ruckus, who everyone guesses to be about 120+ is only 95 pounds..he's a monster of a dog. I have females who only weigh 65..but people seem to think they are 80 pounds.

Do you have a pedigree on your girl..I'm real curious to know what lines she is from and see where the size came from. I'm not trying to argue with you or cause any trouble...just trying to understand more of your girls background. I know large AB's exist..you just don't see them all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
No arguing here either. I have come across some sizeable variation in size on this breed and also quite a variation in the "average size" as yours fall a little short of mine. I am sure the blood line has everything to do with this but am by no means familiar with anything about breeding. Just a happy owner of a fixed female.

The only info I could offer on her lineage would be her mother was Campbells Lady Brindle ABA reg. #B715-366 and her pop was Bybee's Jack Tatum ABA reg.#B724-826. Not sure if this can get you what you are looking for.

I agree about the fact that the scale is the truth and not the eye or what the breeder tells you. I think there is definately a "jockular" element to some breeds that lead to tall tales about weight etc. I could certainly never varify either the weight of the Sire or the Dam but have no reason to question the accuracy of the scale at our vets office. Sayde Mae turned six months on the 27th of June and she is a couple pounds shy of seventy pounds. She moves around alot on the scale so a pinpoint weight is hard to get. Her brother has her beat by at at least fifteen pounds the last time we saw him and I would be quite surprised if they both stopped growing for at least a few more months. Sayde is quite lean now and it's hard to tell hew much she could weigh when her frame is grown and she fills it out.

What variations of their breeds mix could cause this variation in weights? I know very little about the breeding of AB's.
 

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Well, if your girl is a Bybee dog, that explains her size. I am friends with the Bybee's and have seen Jack in person..Bybee dogs are big dogs..and a healthy, lean big. Not sure about her momma..haven't heard of her.

There are soo many types within the AB breed that it's hard to narrow an average. Some lines are heavy Mastiff (St Bernard, Bullmastiff, Dogue De Bordeaux) Some are heavy English Bulldog, some are heavy APBT, Catahoula, etc. Every breeder tends to have a bit different type depending on how they breed. That's what makes this breed so unique.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the breeding info. Sounds like she at least had a reputable poppa. We did see the dam and can only say that she was a rather large dog. Our friends AB Pete is much smaller and his face definately looks like he may have some English in him. He is two and about eighty pounds and his parents and I have actually wondered if he was a mix by accident rather than by breeding. They got him at a rescue. Sounds like he could just be a breeder specific type rather than a "mix."
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oops. After getting involved in this breeding discussion with Carrie I almost forgot the original purpose of this discussion. For those of you looking for info reguarding Runny Poopies we have a progress report. The special diet Dianne put us on has worked like a charm. Immediately after feeding her this mixture her poops were fine which turned out to be a blessing in more ways than one.

Sayde went with us to grandmas house for the fourth and with all the distractions, mom and dad screwed the pooch and she did her business on the carpet in the living room. Any idea how great it was that it was of the solid variety rather than liquid? Happy Fourth everyone.
 
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