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Since the thread was locked before I could reply, I thought I would start a new thread. I won't direct to the exact situation, but felt I needed to give some insight about these collars so people could see the other side of the spectrum...

Shock collars, when used correctly are wonderful training tools. It is important to understand how to use them and how to properly train your dogs to understand them. Any training method used for correction, the dog needs to understand what it is being corrected for. A correction given at a wrong time is useless and confusing to the dog.

I have put shock collars around my own neck to test how painful they are..they aren't really painful at all..more surprising than anything. Anyone ever use a TENZ unit at physical therapy or the doctor's? Same type stimulation..not painful..just a weird sensation. Many dogs act scared and frightened with them at first as they have never felt anything like it....that is why it is important to train with the collars under zero distractions and make sure the dog understands what it did wrong.

So, to all those people who automatically drew conclusions about how cruel and terrible these collars are...I hope I opened some eyes.
 

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I think that they are a great tools, to me though, they are the last line of defense. My friend used one on her Norweign Elkhund and it worked wonders. I personally would not use them until I have tried everything else but I think like any tool it can be cruel if you do not use it properly. SHe started using it to make the dog stop jumping on people and it worked like a charm. With in two or three weeks he stopped and now the shock collar sits in a drawer.
 

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Too many people think they know how an e-collar works and JUST USE IT, without properly knowing the theory behind its use. Like I said, it is the quickest way to destroy a dog.

You don't know how to use it or teach the command in the first place WITHOUT the e-collar, DON't USE it. You will fail. What makes people think they can use an ecollar without any training is BEYOND me!

The e-collar, when used correctly is a VERY humane way to reinforce and speed up your commands. Like any training tool (pinch collar, choke collar, haltie, etc), if you use it incorrectly, it can destroy your training.

There is a reason Tritronics, Dogtra, (maybe the innotek and DT) are the most relied upon brands.

Bottom line. Don't blame the equipment. If you know how to use the collar, it is one of the most fantastic tools you can use. Some manufacturers of "shock" collars have NO experience training dogs.

for those of you who want to know, for bark control, you have to teach the dog not to bark in the LOWEST setting. Notice on the Tritronics and DOGTRA, there is such a setting. The dog barks, the dog notices a tapping (it really feels like tapping) on the neck. Every time the dog barks he notices a tapping. You say quiet at the same time. NOW THE DOG KNOWS/LEARNS that you say quiet and he barks, a tapping happens in his neck. NOW, bump up the stimulus abit ( on the Dogtra there are 7 settings) ONE setting. Now repeat. It should be tolerable, but not pleasant at a certain point. Try to find the LOWEST LEVEL at which he complies with the quiet command. YOU DO NOT WANT A FREAKING COLLAR WITH ACENDING AUTOMATIC STIMULUS like some collars offer to TEACH the dog. If you BYPASS any of these steps, your dog will FREAK out.

Good luck.
 

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i agree with both peter and carrie. shock collars are an incredible tool IF you know how to use one, if not you can do a great deal of damage. i have used shock collars to further my training with all of my dogs and have had NO harmfull effects. that said i was also properly trained in the use of a shock collar b4 i slapped it on my dog. to many people think shock collars are a "quick fix" and they are not, they are a tool to be used to further training and, as peter said, if you don't know how to train properly in the first place you are just confusing the dog and truthfully, being cruel.
i would not use a level on my dog that i have not tried myself first. (and yes i have felt all the levels, one thru ten)
 

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I don't use a shock collar, I've never had cause. However, I have to agree with everyone else - it's a tool that can be used well or used badly. Slapping a shock collar on a bunch of dogs and hoping somehow esp would teach them what's what is not the proper approach.

JMO of course.
Paula
 

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I don't have time to read this, but Carrie - thanks for posting. My thread was not the place for this, so I'm glad you started your own. Quickly, I just want to add, that my bad experience may have just been the brand I selected. I tried the shock on myself, and I was jolted out of my seat and nearly brought to tears. I really thought it was quite painful. I was just expecting a little "zap" that would be enough to startle or annoy, not something that elicits PAIN. I think this particular brand is too intense for a 45-65 pound dog. May work fine on a 200 pound Mastiff. I'm sure the "better" brands you all suggested work fine under the right conditions, but I, personally will never take my chances again. I have that right. I'll train my dogs without the use of pain, we'll get through this. :D My babies mean the world to me.. and I would never, in a million years, cause them one ounce of pain. That's just me.
 

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As far as im concerned they are cruel.

As far as the Kennel Club of Great Britian is concerned they are cruel (and are trying to introduce a bill to parliament to ban them in the UK)
 

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Peter and Carrie's posts were great. I also think that the ecollar is a tool. They are neutral. By this I mean that they can be a positive tool in the correct hands and can be a very negative tool in the wrong hands.

I do have one thing to say about the collars, the dogs and us. Dogs feel electricity more intensely than we do. No matter how big or small the dog is they will feel it much harsher than us.
 

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PeterC said:
Too many people think they know how an e-collar works and JUST USE IT, without properly knowing the theory behind its use. Like I said, it is the quickest way to destroy a dog.

You don't know how to use it or teach the command in the first place WITHOUT the e-collar, DON't USE it. You will fail. What makes people think they can use an ecollar without any training is BEYOND me!

The e-collar, when used correctly is a VERY humane way to reinforce and speed up your commands. Like any training tool (pinch collar, choke collar, haltie, etc), if you use it incorrectly, it can destroy your training.

There is a reason Tritronics, Dogtra, (maybe the innotek and DT) are the most relied upon brands.

Bottom line. Don't blame the equipment. If you know how to use the collar, it is one of the most fantastic tools you can use. Some manufacturers of "shock" collars have NO experience training dogs.

for those of you who want to know, for bark control, you have to teach the dog not to bark in the LOWEST setting. Notice on the Tritronics and DOGTRA, there is such a setting. The dog barks, the dog notices a tapping (it really feels like tapping) on the neck. Every time the dog barks he notices a tapping. You say quiet at the same time. NOW THE DOG KNOWS/LEARNS that you say quiet and he barks, a tapping happens in his neck. NOW, bump up the stimulus abit ( on the Dogtra there are 7 settings) ONE setting. Now repeat. It should be tolerable, but not pleasant at a certain point. Try to find the LOWEST LEVEL at which he complies with the quiet command. YOU DO NOT WANT A FREAKING COLLAR WITH ACENDING AUTOMATIC STIMULUS like some collars offer to TEACH the dog. If you BYPASS any of these steps, your dog will FREAK out.

Good luck.
Ok guys, I had time to read this. Peter, I'm so sorry -- I wish I wouldn't have let the "big advertising" sell me, and I should have listened to you!!! I don't think you told me about the tapping thing, that really would have been a great tool. The one I picked out was too much stimulus for my dogs. :( Hindsight is always 20/20, right.

Now that I'm not a shaking mess, let me tell you guys the WHOLE story, and not just the horrific outcome. Lisa pointed out that one of my mistakes was having the dogs together... well, sure in retrospect, I can see NOW why that would have made sense. But you just have to put yourself in my shoes and realize, I DIDN'T know or expect them to be in pain, or expect this to be a "big deal." The video and advertising made it look so easy. "Freaking out" was not even something I had considered! If I had known, then yes I woud have tried a more controlled environment, one at a time. I simply thought they'd get a little zap and be DISTRACTED from whatever was making them bark, giving me time to correlate the correction and praise when they stopped barking. I didn't expect there to be any big scene that would escalate out of my control, know what I mean? I expected them to just quiet down once the first zap hit.

So I took them outside on my patio. Placed both the collars on. I just kind of "hung out" with them for a while... waiting for an opportunity to test the response. So Heaven finally hears a dog barking, and she lets out a little whine. Immediately, the tone is set off. She of course cocks her head to the side then ignores it. Since she was quiet, I praised her. Koa didn't do much, just sat there, watching. Something caught Heaven's attention and she barked... and just like a rocket, in that split second, SHE TOOK OFF, yelping and crying, louder than I've ever heard a dog cry before in my life. That zap hit her, and she went NUTS.

I guess I don't understand how that response could have been prevented any other way. Even after reading your responses, I still don't understand what I could have done differently, aside from just doing it one dog at a time. (That was just plain stupid, but again... I wasn't thinking this would be a difficult task, I thought it would be like any other training session. And I have trained my dogs together before, so I didn't think anything of it.) If Heaven had been indoors -- Number one, she wouldn't have barked. Number 2, she wouldn't have associated the shock with the real problem-- which is outdoor barking, and Number 3, she still would have taken off running and still would have been in pain.

I don't think it's 100% that I did something wrong, and it's not 100% that the collars suck... I think it just wasn't the right choice for me or the particular problem. I'll be honest, I was looking for an easy way out. I wanted a "quick fix" to their nuisance barking, and thought this was the magic key. I was sold on the advertising, and the "guarantee" to work in 3 days. (You guys know that, I said it like 5 times.) I thought pit bulls are so stubborn and have such a high pain tolerance that I didn't expect a little zap to phase them at all. I figured they may just continue right on barking, and I'd have to supplement the stimulus with more training to get them to make the correlation. Figured it would take a few days of training before they "got it." I never DREAMED they would be writhing in pain and out of control... I just didn't see that one coming.

Ok, so when Heaven took off, Koa looked at her like, "WTF is wrong with her??!" So he went chasing after her, almost like he wanted to help her. I'm out there yelling her name, trying to calm her down, but she couldn't even hear me over her crying... and just then Koa barked out of confusion... and there went that tone. I thought, "Oh no..." and before I knew it, he whined...his zap hit, and HE went running around, jumping high into the air when the shock hit, and crying... and while they both cried, their shocks got harder and harder, and they wouldn't stop running in circles around the yard. They twitched and contorted like they were being electrocuted. It seriously looked like they were having seizures, only they were conscious and aware of their surroundings. They ran into each other, and snarled a bit, thinking the other was inflicting the pain, but once the shock hit again, they'd run the opposite way of each other. That was the point that I had stepped out of the gate because I realized being in the same space with 2 spooked pit bulls going mad was not exactly a safe place to be. Meanwhile the collars had gone through about 2-3 sets... starting all over with the tone, and the increasing shocks. The dogs of course never were able to figure out the cause and effect of the shocks. You know the rest of the story... I calmed them down enough to release the collars.

What a nightmare. I don't want to discourage anyone who feels the shock collar is appropriate for their dogs. What I DO recommend is leaving it to people who are more experienced in training their dogs. And it's not like I'm a total idiot when it comes to training my dogs, I have done VERY well with basics... but this issue probably could have used something more advanced, and I probably would have benefited from using a trainer to help me solve this barking issue. The collars were NOT as easy as they made it sound, and a warning would have been helpful. The whole thing was one big fiasco, but please don't overlook the fact that I love my dogs.. I'm trying my best, and had only done what I thought would WORK. You live and learn, we all make mistakes. I appreciate tips on how to actually WORK WITH my DOGS (the reason for this forum), and I appreciate NOT being chastised or having someone attack my personal character or accuse me of things I have not done. I'm a good, honest person who loves her dogs more than life itself, and would really appreciate a little help in raising them to be fine examples of the bully breed.

That's all. Thanks again... if anyone has any more suggestions for me, I'm all ears. I humbly ask if someone could teach me how to solve this problem without shock collars. Either here or PM is fine. Sorry for not listening... sometimes I am as stubborn as my bullies. I hope that when I need help, I can still come here and find the help I need.
 

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luvabull

get the tritronics one and read the instructions. It is clearly explained.

The product works like a charm. It is a quick fix, but if the alternative is getting fined by the city........well, do you have a choice?

I use the e-collar almost everyday. It is a wonderful tool. My dogs actually get stoked when they see it because it means training time.

I thought you were stubborn. Don't give up when you realized what you did wrong. Fix the problem the correct way.

If you get the collar, I will even show you how to proceed.................THE CORRECT WAY.
 

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Re: luvabull

PeterC said:
get the tritronics one and read the instructions. It is clearly explained.

The product works like a charm. It is a quick fix, but if the alternative is getting fined by the city........well, do you have a choice?

I use the e-collar almost everyday. It is a wonderful tool. My dogs actually get stoked when they see it because it means training time.

I thought you were stubborn. Don't give up when you realized what you did wrong. Fix the problem the correct way.

If you get the collar, I will even show you how to proceed.................THE CORRECT WAY.
Thank you!
 

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LuvaBULL,

Every anti-bark collar states that you MUST introduce the collar to the dog in a situation where there isn't going to be confusion or distractions.

However, I found that the standard anti-bark collars didn't work for Dozer. His problem is that he only barks in the morning when Lucy is not in the crate next to him. At first, the anti-bark collar worked. However, within a few weeks, he figured out that if he just barked a lot really quick, it would shut off for a few minutes and he could continue to bark.

I had to move to a remote trainer. Since it was me that he was bothering, I simply keep the remote control next to my bed and in the morning, I manually correct him. Within 2-3 days, he realized the gig was up and has pretty much stopped barking in that situation.

My wife HATED hearing Dozer get shocked the first time we put it on him. However, within about 2 minutes he figured out how to not get shocked. He was left alone in his crate and didn't have anything else to get confused about. He knew it was the barking causing the problem.

Just because you don't follow instructions and think things through does not mean the product is at fault.
 
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