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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A lot of people who are against punishment will explain how cruel it is while at the same time feeding their dog kibble or eating burgers. If anyone has seen video of what happens in the slaughterhouse that produced that kibble or burger they will know that a brisk spanking or correction with a pinch is so minor as to be almost uncomparable. And if you feed your dog a strictly vegetarian diet you're probably torturing your dog more than any punishment. :)

The only reason I mention this is because I'd like to set moral thoughts aside on this thread. Does anyone here use punishment/physical correction as part of their training? Is it effective? Is its completely abandonment for 100% positive reinforcement in a lot of training circles out of effectiveness or because of sensitivity?

Anyone here ever spank their dog? Is it ever a good idea? Just curious, not looking to judge.

-- mr c
 

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now if that doesn't open up a can of worms i don't know what will!!! :wink:

how intense are we talking, when you say a physical correction? In my opinion, the punishment should fit the crime. I use correction when training, and for the rest of the dogs life. I don't BEAT my dogs, but they know what's acceptable and what's not.
 

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I had a dog that chewed up the cord on a rented carpet cleaner. When I came home and saw it, I was furious and slapped that dog across the face out of anger. Never thought about it, just did it. It took weeks to get her to trust me again. She was terrified of me for atleast 2 weeks, and her trust in me took about 2 more. Never hit a dog again. Not one of my proudest moments :oops:
 

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are we talking smacking or correcting? cuz they are different things really.

I smack my dog playfully in the face all the time (yes, i realize that sounds bad) but she likes it....runs around the house like a damn fool!
 

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Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
 

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Kasco said:
Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
Agreed completely. The only corrections I use with my dogs are leash pops when they're wearing prong collars and "AHAH!!" or "NO!!" when they're doing something wrong. Hitting them, in my opinion, makes dogs think of you as an unstable and unpredictable leader.
 

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Kasco said:
Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
fine line, maybe, but not BIG difference with "hit". Thats assuming your physical punishment is spanking like the question asks. Smack the crap out of them, then yes, big difference
 

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do the dew said:
Kasco said:
Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
fine line, maybe, but not BIG difference with "hit". Thats assuming your physical punishment is spanking like the question asks. Smack the crap out of them, then yes, big difference
No, I think you're misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying that there is a big difference between physical correction and hitting. I use physical correction, like prong collar, alpha roll, etc. I do not HIT my dogs.
 

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mr c said:
A lot of people who are against punishment will explain how cruel it is while at the same time feeding their dog kibble or eating burgers. If anyone has seen video of what happens in the slaughterhouse that produced that kibble or burger they will know that a brisk spanking or correction with a pinch is so minor as to be almost uncomparable. And if you feed your dog a strictly vegetarian diet you're probably torturing your dog more than any punishment. :)

The only reason I mention this is because I'd like to set moral thoughts aside on this thread. Does anyone here use punishment/physical correction as part of their training? Is it effective? Is its completely abandonment for 100% positive reinforcement in a lot of training circles out of effectiveness or because of sensitivity?

Anyone here ever spank their dog? Is it ever a good idea? Just curious, not looking to judge.

-- mr c
My position on spanking dogs is that it teaches nothing.

When you're hitting your dog he isn't thinking, 'oh I'm being struck because in the recent past I got into the trash and will endeavor to avoid this in the future.'. They're not people - they're not thinking in this way.

Secondly, most of the time when your dog gets into something it's poor management on your part. He pees on the floor - you didn't read his signals, or you let him out of your view knowing he's not houstrained, etc. How does spanking fix that?

Dogs are not children in dog suits - use corrections and training methods they understand. Manage them like you're the one with the primate brain. Have realistic expectations of your dog's behavior.

JMO
Paula
 

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do the dew said:
I had a dog that chewed up the cord on a rented carpet cleaner. When I came home and saw it, I was furious and slapped that dog across the face out of anger. Never thought about it, just did it. It took weeks to get her to trust me again. She was terrified of me for atleast 2 weeks, and her trust in me took about 2 more. Never hit a dog again. Not one of my proudest moments :oops:
And it goes exactly to my point. It taught her nothing about chewing up cords on the rented carpet cleaner. She had no idea why you assaulted her.

We're only human, I think it's grand that you learned from that one experience.

Paula
 

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"spanking" would the term apply to a dog? when i think spanking i think over the knee sorta thing, lol. as for physical correction, yes i use them when necessary, i much prefer to use isolation as a punishment tho.
 

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Kasco said:
do the dew said:
Kasco said:
Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
fine line, maybe, but not BIG difference with "hit". Thats assuming your physical punishment is spanking like the question asks. Smack the crap out of them, then yes, big difference
No, I think you're misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying that there is a big difference between physical correction and hitting. I use physical correction, like prong collar, alpha roll, etc. I do not HIT my dogs.
:thumbleft: My bad!!
 

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Leeann.Bella.Remy said:
Kasco said:
Do I use physical correction? Yes. Do I hit my dogs. Never. I think there's a big difference.
Agreed completely. The only corrections I use with my dogs are leash pops when they're wearing prong collars and "AHAH!!" or "NO!!" when they're doing something wrong. Hitting them, in my opinion, makes dogs think of you as an unstable and unpredictable leader.
I agree with all of the above!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've found a well timed (and well deserved) smack on the butt can work miracles. Call me old school, heartless, cruel, insensitive, uneducated, ignorant, and downright mean if you want. Still, works miracles, like I said. Don't see it as much different from a correction with a pronged collar. Well timed and well deserved is the key, has to be while the dog is in the act of doing something wrong and it has to be something very worthy of a correction. If you come home to find your rug torn up and then smack your dog's butt s/he'll be like "what the h***?" If you're at home and your dog starts tearing apart your rug in front of you and you give him a little swat and say "No!" it will be a lesson learned. At least in my experience. My staffie is completely reliable inside home alone for full work days with no problems. Nothing chewed but the nylabone. The swats I've given with firm "No!"'s have instantly corrected problems and got my point across without the behavior repeating itself again.

When I hear stories about people beating their dogs to no avail when they do wrong, I wonder if there's any love/respect on the dog's part for the owner. I know my dog loves and respects me so on the very rare occasion when I take it to the level of a smack she knows, "this is the real deal, I need to cut it out."

I think there's a definite line between abusive and physically assertive.

-- mr c
 

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Funny this question came up now, cause just last nite I got on to
my fiance for smacking Orson on the nose.

The cats has gotten near a treat that wasnt even given to Orson yet,
and Orson lunged and growled at them. So my fiance smacked him
on the nose and said "no".
I told him not to smack Orson, that will only make him
not trust you and fearful. He wont smack him ever again!!

It is really hard to believe people still correct with a hit
or "rub dog's nose in their poop" when they have an accident.
Just makes things worse!
 

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mr c said:
If you're at home and your dog starts tearing apart your rug in front of you and you give him a little swat and say "No!" it will be a lesson learned.
I'd rather just say "NO!" or make a startling noise to get my dogs to stop the behavior and praise them when they comply and find something else to chew on. This has always worked for me. I prefer startling them with a loud noise to stop a behavior rather than hitting them for doing something. This method has worked really well for us. I don't really think chewing a rug or something like that deserves a physical punishment, but that is just my opinion.
 

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Leeann.Bella.Remy said:
mr c said:
If you're at home and your dog starts tearing apart your rug in front of you and you give him a little swat and say "No!" it will be a lesson learned.
I'd rather just say "NO!" or make a startling noise to get my dogs to stop the behavior and praise them when they comply and find something else to chew on. This has always worked for me. I prefer startling them with a loud noise to stop a behavior rather than hitting them for doing something. This method has worked really well for us. I don't really think chewing a rug or something like that deserves a physical punishment, but that is just my opinion.
I'm with you there.

Paula
 

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There is nothing wrong with using 'physical correction' with your dog. (obviously excluding abuse)

The real issue is your timing.

If it isnt immediate, the dog will not associate correctly. And because dogs arent overly cognitive, association is everything.

Ex- You see your dog head over to the door to go out, your two steps away and he pee's anyway. A smack on the butt and stern NO will get him to associate the punishment with the act. Note- If the dog isnt very alpha the smack probably wont be necessary, the NO! will do the job, the more alpha the dog the more in warrants a smack. PLEASE UNDERSTAND IM NOT TALKING ABOUT BRINGING YOUR HAND DOWN FROM THE REACHES OF HEAVEN AND HITTING THE DOG WITH ALL YOUVE GOT. If you dont know what is an appropriate 'smack', you shouldnt be doing it.

On the other hand if your not paying attention and your dog has already pee'd on the floor and you notice it 5 minutes later, no correction should be made because all the dog will associate your correction with is you. And you dont want that.

Same thing goes for choke collar pulls, alpha rolls, etc.... if your timing isnt right, the only thing your dog will associate the correction with is YOU not the behavior you want then to stop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
bubbabulldog said:
Ex- You see your dog head over to the door to go out, your two steps away and he pee's anyway. A smack on the butt and stern NO will get him to associate the punishment with the act. Note- If the dog isnt very alpha the smack probably wont be necessary, the NO! will do the job, the more alpha the dog the more in warrants a smack. PLEASE UNDERSTAND IM NOT TALKING ABOUT BRINGING YOUR HAND DOWN FROM THE REACHES OF HEAVEN AND HITTING THE DOG WITH ALL YOUVE GOT. If you dont know what is an appropriate 'smack', you shouldnt be doing it.
You cold heartless monster! (just kidding) I agree 100%. Sometimes I think the people that freak out with all the noise are potentially negatively impacting their dog whereas a swift well-timed swat on the bum gets the proper message across.

-- mr c
 

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OrsonDogge said:
Funny this question came up now, cause just last nite I got on to
my fiance for smacking Orson on the nose.

The cats has gotten near a treat that wasnt even given to Orson yet,
and Orson lunged and growled at them. So my fiance smacked him
on the nose and said "no".
I told him not to smack Orson, that will only make him
not trust you and fearful. He wont smack him ever again!!

It is really hard to believe people still correct with a hit
or "rub dog's nose in their poop" when they have an accident.
Just makes things worse!
Remind him that dogs' nasal bones are very delicate, and easy to break. Imagine how your eyes tear up and your face stings when you get hit in the nose... I imagine it's not much different for a dog. :( I agree with your stand!
 
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