[Miakoda]

Here's what was written by a supposed knowledgable & respected APBT owner who has several dogs with many titles. (it's just a shame that she's full of shit & the biggest hypocrite ever & not respectable in the least, but that's OT :wink: ). Anyways, I found it ironic that she posted this considering, if I remember correctly, she had some Sch. titled dogs. Here was her quote. And also, read the link & I would like to hear from the working folk what they think of this crap.

I found this entire long article interesting and too true. Just yesterday a woman handler in Arkansas was hanging AND shocking her Belgian malinois to get it to release a ball and it attacked her and severely injured her, ripping her throat till her larynx was exposed. Can't say I blame the dog. This crap has to stop!
http://www.stoplynching.com/index.html

This was my initial response:

It seems that Schutzhund (utilized by police and military) is synonymous with hanging, helicoptering, slamming and kicking, but it is not only members of the police and military who do these things.

I cannot support ANY person or organization that makes blanket statements like this. I've met up with some wonderful AB people who are highly involved in Schutzhund & Ringsport & it would suffice to say that they are not animal abusers who autmatically hang, slam, & kick their dogs.

To make statements like this is just as absurd. It's the equivalent of saying weightpull is synonymous with people using cattle prods to get their poor unwilling dogs to pull. Of course Shiznit like this happens, but to make a blanket statment & say that everyone, who participates in this event, trains like this is absurd.

And I'm with cheeky......I've read many a posts where someone's 2 dogs got into a fight & they had to choke them off of each other. Seems like they should've just let them go & asked the dogs nicely not to do that anymore. :roll:

Btw, anyone who would like to read the full thread over there & put their 2 cents in, pm me & I will send you the link. I honestly feel some of the "pit bull" people need a wake up call about how working dogs don't hate their lives & aren't abused. :wink:

 

[Miakoda]

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to state that I believe that site is no better than the propaganda put out by the HSUS & PETA.....it sounds like their kind of work.

 

[AllAmericanPUP]

check out leerburgs website...he completely supports hanging dogs :roll:

 

[bigut64]

I am sorry, but the practice of hanging a dog to make it not whine or somthing is rediculous. Now i agree if the dog is in attack mode and the only way to stop it is to lift it off the ground by the leash, that is fine. But to just randomly choke the dog out is horrible, and that person is a dog abuser. Also helicoptering is dog abuse, never a reason to do that to a dog. Also even if you have to choke the dog out to stop a fight, you should never have to make the dog pass out from it.

 

[bubbabulldog]

Is what she posted true? Do police/law enforcement/military etc really use these methods in training their dogs?

IF THIS IS TRUE... you have got to be ufkcnig kidding me :evil:

Can someone who knows please confirm for me that this really does happen? (small scale, large scale- doesnt matter)

 

[SisMorphine]

I think the biggest problem with the article itself is that it is absolutely sentionationalized. So anyone who reads the article is now going to think that "hanging" a dog means "hanging it while frying it with and e-collar and kicking it in it's stomach." If it had been posted as a "Wow, look at this crazy article, this girl needs some education on what hanging actually is" I would have understood it. But instead a trainer posted it as a "this is why I don't hang my dogs" which makes NO sense to me. I don't beat my dogs either, so what, but the article never explains what hanging actually is, nor in what circumstances it would be appropriate. But I don't think the person who wrote the article really fully understood what they were talking about anyway, probably just heard of those incidents and instead of finding out what hanging really is, just reported on the sensationalized aspect of it.

The OP (the one who posted the article, not Miakoda) rarely makes sense to me anyway as they do MANY things that I feel are far more dangerous and cruel with their dogs than to simply take their front feet off the ground for a few moments.

 

[bigut64]

The OP (the one who posted the article, not Miakoda) rarely makes sense to me anyway as they do MANY things that I feel are far more dangerous and cruel with their dogs than to simply take their front feet off the ground for a few moments.

Does that knock them out when you "simply take their feet off the ground"

 

[SisMorphine]

The OP (the one who posted the article, not Miakoda) rarely makes sense to me anyway as they do MANY things that I feel are far more dangerous and cruel with their dogs than to simply take their front feet off the ground for a few moments.

Does that knock them out when you "simply take their feet off the ground"

Nope. Slightly difficult to breath, sure, but that's the point of hanging. They are doing something so bad where their option is "continue to do bad behavior or breath." The dog is the one who controls the situation here. Once they stop the bad behavior, they are immediately lowered and training goes on. Not something to use for every dog but there is a time and place for almost every training method when done correctly.

 

[Cookies Mom]

The OP (the one who posted the article, not Miakoda) rarely makes sense to me anyway as they do MANY things that I feel are far more dangerous and cruel with their dogs than to simply take their front feet off the ground for a few moments.

Does that knock them out when you "simply take their feet off the ground"

Nope. Slightly difficult to breath, sure, but that's the point of hanging. They are doing something so bad where their option is "continue to do bad behavior or breath." The dog is the one who controls the situation here. Once they stop the bad behavior, they are immediately lowered and training goes on. Not something to use for every dog but there is a time and place for almost every training method when done correctly.

I have to differ with that one! No need to hang your dog. If you have to do that then you have no control over you dog, and they shouldn't be used as a working dog. jmo

 

[SisMorphine]

The OP (the one who posted the article, not Miakoda) rarely makes sense to me anyway as they do MANY things that I feel are far more dangerous and cruel with their dogs than to simply take their front feet off the ground for a few moments.

Does that knock them out when you "simply take their feet off the ground"

Nope. Slightly difficult to breath, sure, but that's the point of hanging. They are doing something so bad where their option is "continue to do bad behavior or breath." The dog is the one who controls the situation here. Once they stop the bad behavior, they are immediately lowered and training goes on. Not something to use for every dog but there is a time and place for almost every training method when done correctly.

I have to differ with that one! No need to hang your dog. If you have to do that then you have no control over you dog, and they shouldn't be used as a working dog. jmo

Sorry I'm new here and am not sure who does what, but do you work your dog or have you ever worked a dog?

ETA: (Sorry was on the phone with the above post and didn't fully express myself there)
This isn't a working dog thing, this is a safety thing for any dog who needs it. My Greyhound would never need to be hung. He would never need a prong. It's not the way to train that dog. But there are some dogs out there for which this is an effective method, of course only to be used by professionals and under the supervision and instruction of professionals.
It is a correction that is done without anger and should be quick and to the point.


What is the most common way of breaking up a dog fight? Well you grab the dog's collars and lift their front feet off the ground. As it becomes harder to breath they let go of each other and you can safely remove them. This is hanging in a correct situation. You are holding onto the leash of a dog and the dog suddenly turns and lunges at you and/or bites you. You have that leash you hang that dog and rabies pole your arm until the dog stops tweaking and you can (hopefully) safely place it in a kennel or give it to someone else. That's hanging a dog.

The correction must be fair, and if a dog is fighting, or is biting and/or coming at me you'd better believe that's a fair correction.

 

[PeterC]

it is sensationalized.

I am not an advocate of helocoptering a dog. I have seen it. I have seen some of the best trainers in the world do this. Do I chock my dog so that his front feet are off the ground? Well, I think most people do. If you say no, that is a lie.

It is a question of control and the drive the dog is in. It is also the temperment of the dog. Everything is relative. How do you control a dog in EXTREME DRIVE (fight or prey aggression?) If you do not know, you cannot say this method is bad or good. Does it work? Yes, on some dogs. No on others.

You use the force necessary to control the dog. I prefere to use calm force. Slamming him or hitting the dog is counterproductive and it simply does not make sense to hurt your partner. Being out of control would be even more dangerous. Don't you think?

I am not saying any training method is good or bad. I think you should understand WHY it is done first before you make judgement. Like the E-collar, most people think it is cruel and make quick assumptions on its use. Used correctly it becomes an invaluable tool.

Trust me. Some dogs, you need to control the air. It is better than slamming it or brutalizing it. With a very very alpha male, you probably do not want to slam. He may think it is a REAL fight and chances are, you will loose.

Remember, these are working dogs with very high drives. We are not talking about your average couch potato.

 

[peeblerelf]

Re: it is sensationalized.

Remember, these are working dogs with very high drives. We are not talking about your average couch potato.

I was going to say that. When you see a dog that is all worked up that wants to take someone out, sometimes it's necessary to diffuse the situation. Can help control dog aggression, possessiveness...that kind of stuff. You just have to know how to "work it" properly.

 

[bigut64]

Re: it is sensationalized.

Remember, these are working dogs with very high drives. We are not talking about your average couch potato.

I was going to say that. When you see a dog that is all worked up that wants to take someone out, sometimes it's necessary to diffuse the situation. Can help control dog aggression, possessiveness...that kind of stuff. You just have to know how to "work it" properly.

I think constricting air until the dog is calm, and as soon as the dog calms down and i mean instantly, let the dog down. However "helicoptering" a dog is animal abuse and the person doing it should pay the price. Anyone who witnesses it should have the balls to call the police.

 

[dreamofwrx]

what exactly is helicoptoring, i have an idea but i want to make sure.