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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay this may be a stupid question - but someone asked me the other day and I didn't know the answer. Its about schutzhaund (i know i spelled that wrong) training ---- is the dog told to attack the bait person with a specific command like a "go" word or how does that work? The question kinda stems from a discussion about whether its okay to teach a dog that a certain word means they should attack - that way if you are ever in trouble you can just say the word and they will know you are in trouble. Anyway, I don't know anything about any of this so i'm jsut curious as to how that works.
 

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Tell whoever you had this converstaion with that it is not okay to teach your dog to attack with a certain command. Schutzhund or any other type of training that involves personal protection should only be taught by experienced people. There is alot more to protection training that telling your dog to "attack". People who try this type of stuff at home without understanding it are one of the reasons for BSL and unprovoked attacks on people.
 

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These are two different things protection work "Schutzhund" and person attacking. With the protection work desire of the dog is coached to the prey and the dog would like only the sleeve not the decoy! With the protectiion work "Schutzdienst" it goes of not biting therefore the person on a command. If the decoy turns the sleeve out, the dog would NOT attack the decoy anymore.
My Bulldogs know when I'm in trouble, even those we don't train Schutzhund. Ida Red she isn't interested in a sleeve, but she is protective if she has too. Diablo (SCH I) and Manni (SCH I) are titled, but they wouldn't attack someone even I ask them for.
Angelika
 

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I have wondered that myself.

No question is stupid. The only way you will learn is if you ask. :D 9 times out of 10 someone else has the same question as you do.
 

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Angelika said:
These are two different things protection work "Schutzhund" and person attacking. With the protection work desire of the dog is coached to the prey and the dog would like only the sleeve not the decoy! With the protectiion work "Schutzdienst" it goes of not biting therefore the person on a command. If the decoy turns the sleeve out, the dog would NOT attack the decoy anymore.
My Bulldogs know when I'm in trouble, even those we don't train Schutzhund. Ida Red she isn't interested in a sleeve, but she is protective if she has too. Diablo (SCH I) and Manni (SCH I) are titled, but they wouldn't attack someone even I ask them for.
Angelika
That's very interesting. It's neat to hear how different pups act!
 

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Angelika said:
These are two different things protection work "Schutzhund" and person attacking. With the protection work desire of the dog is coached to the prey and the dog would like only the sleeve not the decoy! With the protectiion work "Schutzdienst" it goes of not biting therefore the person on a command. If the decoy turns the sleeve out, the dog would NOT attack the decoy anymore.
My Bulldogs know when I'm in trouble, even those we don't train Schutzhund. Ida Red she isn't interested in a sleeve, but she is protective if she has too. Diablo (SCH I) and Manni (SCH I) are titled, but they wouldn't attack someone even I ask them for.
Angelika
I think it really depends on the goals of the individuals and the ideals of the particular Schutzhund clubs. My old club basically trained for the sport...no real teaching to focus on the man.....alot of equipment fixated dogs. My current club on the other hand couldn't be more opposite. All the dogs are taught to focus on the man from day one and NOT the equipment. Many of the dogs will and have bitten for real and could care less if the helper is wearing equipment or not. Even though I train for Schutzhund which is now techincally a "Sport" I would still hope my dogs would bite for real and we encourage that during our training. I think it is a shame that what was once a breed suitablility test has been watered down to the point now where alot of the dogs are just "sporty" and not real protection dogs. After all doesn't the word "Schutzhund" actually mean "protection" when translated??

Either way, when it comes to dogs biting people...it should only be done my experienced people who know what they are doing, sport work or street work, it doesn't matter.
 

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Lisa said:
Angelika said:
These are two different things protection work "Schutzhund" and person attacking. With the protection work desire of the dog is coached to the prey and the dog would like only the sleeve not the decoy! With the protectiion work "Schutzdienst" it goes of not biting therefore the person on a command. If the decoy turns the sleeve out, the dog would NOT attack the decoy anymore.
My Bulldogs know when I'm in trouble, even those we don't train Schutzhund. Ida Red she isn't interested in a sleeve, but she is protective if she has too. Diablo (SCH I) and Manni (SCH I) are titled, but they wouldn't attack someone even I ask them for.
Angelika
I think it really depends on the goals of the individuals and the ideals of the particular Schutzhund clubs. My old club basically trained for the sport...no real teaching to focus on the man.....alot of equipment fixated dogs. My current club on the other hand couldn't be more opposite. All the dogs are taught to focus on the man from day one and NOT the equipment. Many of the dogs will and have bitten for real and could care less if the helper is wearing equipment or not. Even though I train for Schutzhund which is now techincally a "Sport" I would still hope my dogs would bite for real and we encourage that during our training. I think it is a shame that what was once a breed suitablility test has been watered down to the point now where alot of the dogs are just "sporty" and not real protection dogs. After all doesn't the word "Schutzhund" actually mean "protection" when translated??

Either way, when it comes to dogs biting people...it should only be done my experienced people who know what they are doing, sport work or street work, it doesn't matter.
Exactly, that is part of why I really like the K9 prosports. It is a sport but the dogs are trained to know if they need to protect thier owner they will do so. I dont know alot about schutzhund, do they do blind sleves? I would think a sleve happy dog would not want to really jump on a human if they were not wearing a sleve. I agree with you you also lisa that nobody should be a backyard attack trainner. That is a good way to get people hurt for no reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
We weren't discussing it because either one of us wants to teach our dog to attack on commmand - GOD NO!!! HE was just asking me because I said to Mags "go get daddy- go get him" and my friend was like "you shouldn't tellyour dog to go get someone because she will think that means go attack him"--- now Mags knows EXACTLY what "go get daddy" it means that when hes in bed and wont get his ass up or he is laying on the floor doing something she should run up and jump on him and pin him and lick his face--- she knows that ---- but thats how the conversation got started. Thanks for the info about the S training - very interesting stuff
 

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Exactly, that is part of why I really like the K9 prosports. It is a sport but the dogs are trained to know if they need to protect thier owner they will do so. I dont know alot about schutzhund, do they do blind sleves? I would think a sleve happy dog would not want to really jump on a human if they were not wearing a sleve. I agree with you you also lisa that nobody should be a backyard attack trainner. That is a good way to get people hurt for no reason.
I assume when you say "blind sleeves" you mean hidden sleeves? Well, in a SCH trial the helper wears a regular sleeve but in training you can use whatever you want :wink: IMO, a dog can look at a big puffy bite suit as nothing but a chew toy just like some equipment fixated dogs look at a sleeve. A helper in a suit looks like a Michelin man, the dogs must know the differnece between that and regular clothes! The only way to know for sure if a dog will bite for real is by using a hidden arm sleeve (unless of course a dog has a real life experience) . I agree about Schutzund and that there are alot of people and clubs training purely for sport and titles but there are also alot of Schutzhund competitors who want a dog that will bite for real. People who think all Schutzhund dogs won't bite for real have probably only been to the "sporty" type of clubs and never a club where they encourage dogs to ignore equipment and focus on the man. Not all Schutzhund clubs are created equal and not all dogs competing in the "sport" are equipment fixated.
 

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Lisa said:
Exactly, that is part of why I really like the K9 prosports. It is a sport but the dogs are trained to know if they need to protect thier owner they will do so. I dont know alot about schutzhund, do they do blind sleves? I would think a sleve happy dog would not want to really jump on a human if they were not wearing a sleve. I agree with you you also lisa that nobody should be a backyard attack trainner. That is a good way to get people hurt for no reason.
I assume when you say "blind sleeves" you mean hidden sleeves? Well, in a SCH trial the helper wears a regular sleeve but in training you can use whatever you want :wink: IMO, a dog can look at a big puffy bite suit as nothing but a chew toy just like some equipment fixated dogs look at a sleeve. A helper in a suit looks like a Michelin man, the dogs must know the differnece between that and regular clothes! The only way to know for sure if a dog will bite for real is by using a hidden arm sleeve (unless of course a dog has a real life experience) . I agree about Schutzund and that there are alot of people and clubs training purely for sport and titles but there are also alot of Schutzhund competitors who want a dog that will bite for real. People who think all Schutzhund dogs won't bite for real have probably only been to the "sporty" type of clubs and never a club where they encourage dogs to ignore equipment and foucs on the man. Not all Schutzhund clubs are created equal and not all dogs competing in the "sport" are equipment fixated.
Yeah I ment a hidden arm sleve. I have no exposer except what I see online to Schutzhund, I know not all groups are purley sport clubs. Thanks for the info.
 
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