Bulldog Breeds Forums banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right now I am currently training my AST (he is a mutt, but definetly mostly AST) with positive reinforcement training that my mom signed us up for at PetSmart. He is reacting well to the positive reinforcement training, but the more and more I read about Koehlers method of training, I think that is the way to go. So he still has 4 more weeks of positive reinforcement, but when he is done, would I be able to start Koehler training maybe 1 month or so afterwards, or would this completely mess the dog up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
one extreme to another.

That is one extreme to another. Very drastic.

Why do you want to switch? Is the positive training not working well?

I personally do not like the Koeler's method totally. Yes, there is a need to correct, but I think there is a better method.
That book was written quite awhile back. I think there is too much emphasis on correction and not enough on reward and withholding of reward (as the primary punishment for dogs).

Why waste money if you do not like the training?

I have read dog training for dummies, and while I do not agree totally, I believe it is way better than Khoeler's book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I like the positive reinforcement training, but I feel the Koehler method places more emphasis on me being the Alpha Male more so than what we are doing at PetSmart. I also would not have signed up for obediance training with Rusty right away, because there are several people in my area that mainly work with bully type dogs. I dont think that i would not follow Koehlers method to the tee, and probably vary it slightly to my dogs learning style.
I feel that the way they teach at PetSmart is to much of "if i do what he tells me, i get a treat" not enough of "i should do what he tells me because he is my leader."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
your quote "I feel that the way they teach at PetSmart is to much of "if i do what he tells me, i get a treat" not enough of "i should do what he tells me because he is my leader."

YOu know, when I was starting off training dogs, and with my first dog (an american staff terrier UD), I did with your philospophy. I wanted the dog to do it because I am the alpha. That is good. However, I want to give you some food for thought that I give to people I train dogs for.

think of yourself as the dog, not the alpha male, when you are training dogs. YOU are the dog.

With this perspective in mind..........why would you not train with treats? Treats (food or reward toy)? Why limit the TOOLS you have? It is like saying I do not want to use a hammer to hammer a nail because I will not have a hammer all the time. It does not make logical sense. Now, once the dog learns the command, you can give the food or toy reward with less frequency. That is the art, isn't it?

Dogs as pavlov, so aptly showed, is a conditioned animal. If I am a dog, if my master IS THE SOURCE OF GOODNESS, REWARDS, HAPPINESS, I am more apt to come to him...........QUICKLY. If he cranks on my choke collar and causes discomfort, why would I come to him? You gotta be crazy! I would HATE to to OB!

this is what I did nto like about Khoeler, although I believed him to be a fantastic trainer. His dogs looked like they HATED doing OB.

OB time should be time of rewards, not time for corrections. Corrections creat ISSUES between you and the dog, especially if the dog perceives (not you) it is excessive or inappropriate.

However, my hats off to you for training!!!!!!!!!! That is awesome. The more trained ABs or bullies around, the bette the public perception.

Good luck!

PS. If you are going to train with a trainer. LOOK at HIS/HER dogs. Do they look DRIVEN to do obedience training???? If not, walk away. He obviously does not know how. The dog should be going insane to do some ob. Why not? It is reward time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
I agree with Peter. I want my dog to enjoy obedience time, not hate it. Sure you need to use corrections but that comes much LATER once the dog is mature and can handle a correction and actually understands fully what you are asking of it. Think about it. Is it really fair to correct a dog when it doesn't really understand why it is being corrected? Make the teaching process fun and only use corrections once the dog understands what you want. Good training is a proper balance of positive and negative reinforcement. Too much postive with not enough negative equals a dog who does not respect you. Too much negative and not enough postive equals an unhappy dog. Just enough of each will get you the best results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
those are great suggestions!

Dogs as pavlov, so aptly showed, is a conditioned animal. If I am a dog, if my master IS THE SOURCE OF GOODNESS, REWARDS, HAPPINESS, I am more apt to come to him...........QUICKLY.
I definetly was not thinking of it like that. Thanks for the insight.


If you are going to train with a trainer. LOOK at HIS/HER dogs. Do they look DRIVEN to do obedience training???? If not, walk away. He obviously does not know how. The dog should be going insane to do some ob. Why not? It is reward time.
I have seen her dogs, and it is kind of like comparing apples to oranges. She has two miniature dachshund's, I could be wrong, but they seem like they would both be very different.

I usually feel kind of bad taking Rusty to training though, he likes all the treats, but there are a lot of people who do not read dog's body language there. Rusty will be in a power stance completely in drive, and they let there dogs walk over and say, "oh, he just wants to play." To which i respond, no, he does not want to play, he doesnt care for other dogs, and they dont ever really believe me.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top