Bulldog Breeds Forums banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"I had a phone call the other day from a person interested in buying a pup to train for therapy. Her young daughter has Cerebral Palisy(sp?)- and they had just lost their first therapy dog while it was still in training. The dog was an AB and was doing well with the training- I guess the girl and dog really bonded. Long story short a onset of a neurological condition paralyzed the dog and she finally had to be put down. The vet did every test there was and all seemed normal- the vet sent in a sample to the Univ. in Missouri. They suspect it was NCL (many of the symptoms where present). The one thing that really stuck out in our conversation- and you folks that are parents will really identify with this... She says "You know the worst thing about this was?- It was like watching her (the daughter) go through this, because she will go through it!"

Now I can't comment on these people as I have never met them- but from one mom to the other I could hear the desperation in the mom's voice it was awful. In a positive light.. Although this happened she really feels that the AB breed is the breed for her family and the breed that she wants to have with her daughter. I know not all blood lines are cut out for this type of "work" but there are some out there.

I just thought I would share the story with you all in hopes that if anyone out there isn't sure why they should test- THIS is a prime example.

Thanks for reading"


poor woman, poor child, poor dog :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
Oh that is so sad. Dozers parents weren't tested, he came from a byb and I didn't know any better. It would KILL me to see my dog go through that. Lucy's parents were both clear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
here is more info that shows how serious this problem could become



DNA test now available for Ceroid Lipofuscinosis

Hi fellow bulldoggers. Back in the “Summer 2003” issue of the ABR I wrote about a genetic problem that had cropped up called Neuronal Ceroid Lipofuscinosis (NCL). At that time there was a bit of speculation about the disease, its genetic mode of inheritance, and in what lines the disorder was likely to pop up. Well, most of the questions have now been answered. Thanks to the University of Missouri, there is now a DNA test (a simple blood test) available to determine whether or not a dog is a carrier of the defective gene. Also, it seems reasonably certain that the known carriers are dogs down from Hines’ Country Boy or Hines’ Snowbird. One of these dogs was most certainly the first known carrier, however which one is still uncertain. With the help of Matt Boyd, we’ve discovered that most, if not all, of the known carriers alive now are down from Outback’s Diesel or Boyd’s/Hines’ Moleque. Should you plan a breeding using a dog with one of the aforementioned dogs in his/her ancestry, it would be a good idea to have it tested for the defective gene. There is no way of telling whether or not a dog is a carrier without testing for it. The website for info on testing at the University of Missouri is http://www.caninegeneticdiseases.net/CL_site/mainCL.htm A link to the website is also available on Matt and Suzie Boyd’s site http://www.boydsbulldogs.com/ While several of us have seen our beautiful adolescent dogs transformed into crippled adult dogs, there is now no reason why this disease should pop up again as long as we’re thorough with our testing and honest about our dog’s pedigrees.

I’d like to thank Matt & Suzie Boyd for being so open and honest (as they always are) about the problem since I first brought them information on what was, at that time, only a theory about the disease and it’s origins in American Bulldogs. Another person right out front about the problem was Dave Pope. He also never waffled about the disease, but confronted it head on and is totally committed to the betterment of the breed. Finally, I want to thank our whole club’s founding members, since they all had to put up with affected dogs, but were always supportive in trying to figure out what the problem was, and worked with Victoria and I and Drs. Levesque & Evans when we had to get samples to be sent to various universities around the country to try to identify the disease. Unfortunately, as a lot of you know, there are a lot of breeders who would have denied that the problem could possibly be in their line, and lied about ever seeing signs of it. Luckily, because of the openness of the people involved, there’s every reason to expect this disease to be eradicated. If you have any questions about NCL, I’m always happy to dispense what information I have. My e-mail is [email protected]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
Its a shame, I did not come accross one thing about NCL when reading about ABs and researching breeders. And believe me, I researched for a long time. I hope that it is brought to light more. Maybe we can get root to post some info about it on the main bulldog breeds page. I think it is a good idea to make a sticky about NCL. Anyone else agree? If so can someone with alot of knowledge pm me with some good things to post in it? Attitude? (i know we got catty with each other at one point but i would like us to be cool)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
Good idea bringing this up again. I brought it up a few times back when the test first came out. Funny though the amount of people who STILL aren't aware of it or if they do, don't care. I mean testing for this can tell you EXACTLY what to expect if you breed the animal. Clear to Clear = All clears. Clear to Carrier =mixed bag of carriers and clears etc etc Send in the dewclaws of pups at birth to find out what is what and act accordingly. Very cut and dry, no guessing games. Much more straightforward and predictable than hip testing. Sure hip xraying tells you the state of your breeding dogs hips which I think is aboslutely necessary BUT even so you could get dysplastic pups from to OFA Excellent dogs. With NCL you know exactly what the outcome will be and you test for it immeidately if you chose to use a carrier in a breeding program. NCL testing is an awesome tool! More beeeders need to wake up and start using it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,272 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
kogeki said:
Its a shame, I did not come accross one thing about NCL when reading about ABs and researching breeders. And believe me, I researched for a long time. I hope that it is brought to light more. Maybe we can get root to post some info about it on the main bulldog breeds page. I think it is a good idea to make a sticky about NCL. Anyone else agree? If so can someone with alot of knowledge pm me with some good things to post in it? Attitude? (i know we got catty with each other at one point but i would like us to be cool)
no problems here kogeki
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
attitude said:
kogeki said:
Its a shame, I did not come accross one thing about NCL when reading about ABs and researching breeders. And believe me, I researched for a long time. I hope that it is brought to light more. Maybe we can get root to post some info about it on the main bulldog breeds page. I think it is a good idea to make a sticky about NCL. Anyone else agree? If so can someone with alot of knowledge pm me with some good things to post in it? Attitude? (i know we got catty with each other at one point but i would like us to be cool)
no problems here kogeki
Cool. I even forget what we were going at each other about, something training related. Whatever it was was stupid.

I really want a NCL a sticky. I had thought about it before but forgot. Attitude and Lisa, could you send me some info so I can compile something? I want to have a good description of the disease, how it is tested for, and why breeders should be testing, links, etc. And anything else you can think of.

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
NCL is a disease that shows up when dog is about 1-3 years old, it leads to death.
The gene that causes this disease is resessive, that means, the sick puppy has to get the gene from both of his parents. A dog who gets sick is a carrier of two faulty genes. :!:

But we can get rid of this disease easily. In Finland the breeders of ABs have activated and suggested that if we do not use ncl-carriers in breeding, the whole disease will disappear, which make sense.

Ncl can be tested, there's american test, which separates only sick dogs from the carriers and ncl-free ones.
And there's german test, which separates ncl-free, from the sick ones and carriers.

German test is better, because it will not help, if we continue using ncl-carriers in breeding, because of the simple fact that two carriers will produce also sick puppies, though the majority of the litter would be only carriers or ncl-free.

This will make the point clear:
NCL-free X NCL-free ------ All puppies are NCL-free, 100% healthy litter.
NCL-free X NCL-carrier --- 50% are carriers, 50% are NCL-free, so you could say 50% healthy litter.
NCL-carrier X NCL-carrier -25%NCL-free, 50% NCL-carriers, 25% sick ones.
NCL-Carrier X SICK --------50% sick, 50% carriers
SICK X SICK ----------------100% SICK.

:wink:

Everyone can now make conclusions of this. I am not a breeder and I had my Bahia tested. The reasons i had my dog tested, were because im interested about her health issues and it may be that someday I start breeding, and then I will not use NCL-carriers in any case. 8)

And my english is veeery bad, i'm not ten years old, i'm just finnish. :oops:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
I see nothing wrong with with breeding a Carrier to a Clear BUT the breeder must be willing to test the WHOLE litter before new homes are even considered. ANY more carriers proudced should be Culled from breeding. There are alot of VERY nice AB's out there that are NCL carriers. If someone wants to add one to their breeding program because the dog is REAL nice then I say go for it! Breed that carrier to a clear and select your pup or pups out of the ones that come back clear. As long as the carriers aren't put back out there I don't see a problem. Breeding should be about you own yard first and formost anyways and if I think an NCL carrier would have something to offer to my yard I would not hesitate to use it. The key to using a carrier in a breeding program is not allowing more to get put out into the general public where they can continue to be used by irrespnsible people. Responsible people can use carriers in their breeding programs to get what they want. It's the irresponsible ones that should not have carrier dogs unless they are spayed or nuetered. It all comes down to breeder repsonsiblity. Most dogs out there are carrying a gene to some disease or other, we just don't know it. At least with the NCL gene we can test and act accordingly and responsibly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Lisa, you got the point.

BUT. Let's think that you have a dog, it'sa carrier, but it's a really nice and you choose to go for it, and you breed that to a clear. Well, you got ncl-free and ncl-carriers.

Those NCL-carriers you sell for lower cost, because they are going only for pets, not for breeding. Yep. This is a fine idea.

Then the buyer of a ncl-puppy, just ignores whole disease, and happens to breed an unregistered litter, get's cash and puppies shows up to be sick. In our world, theres lot of people who thinks only money, and thats why it would be better, if breeders used only ncl-free dogs.

Of course, the breederif responsible, when he tests the litter of carrier and free, and tries to find homes for carriers, so that they would be only pets, but everyone knows that breeder can not trust buyers 100%.

It would work with the registered dogs, but it would'nt help the whole breed.

But we can always try to give information, to dogbuyers, about this disease, and others too. International co-operating with bulldogbreeders is important. i think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,671 Posts
tuntun said:
Lisa, you got the point.

BUT. Let's think that you have a dog, it'sa carrier, but it's a really nice and you choose to go for it, and you breed that to a clear. Well, you got ncl-free and ncl-carriers.

Those NCL-carriers you sell for lower cost, because they are going only for pets, not for breeding. Yep. This is a fine idea.

Then the buyer of a ncl-puppy, just ignores whole disease, and happens to breed an unregistered litter, get's cash and puppies shows up to be sick. In our world, theres lot of people who thinks only money, and thats why it would be better, if breeders used only ncl-free dogs.

Of course, the breederif responsible, when he tests the litter of carrier and free, and tries to find homes for carriers, so that they would be only pets, but everyone knows that breeder can not trust buyers 100%.

It would work with the registered dogs, but it would'nt help the whole breed.

But we can always try to give information, to dogbuyers, about this disease, and others too. International co-operating with bulldogbreeders is important. i think.
I understand your point and totally agree with you that there are too many irresponsbile people out there. That is why I say to spay/nueter/cull any carriers that are produced. Spay/nutering can be done at 8 weeks now so if one doesn't have the heart to put any carriers down then S/N and put in a pet home any carrier puppies. That way as a breeder you still get what you want but at the same time don't have to worry about people being irresponsible with the dogs you produce. Great thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Lisa said:
I understand your point and totally agree with you that there are too many irresponsbile people out there. That is why I say to spay/nueter/cull any carriers that are produced. Spay/nutering can be done at 8 weeks now so if one doesn't have the heart to put any carriers down then S/N and put in a pet home any carrier puppies. That way as a breeder you still get what you want but at the same time don't have to worry about people being irresponsible with the dogs you produce. Great thread.
Yea, that would be the only sensible solution, if breeder really consider using ncl-carrier is worth it.

Spaying dogs at 8 week... :?:

Hardly any vet would do that, in Finland. Vets are recommending that dog should be about a year old, before it can be spayed. (I think this is because hormons will balance, when dog gets older. But it depends on vet too, how young dog he/she will operate.

Maybe we don't need a worldwide solution. NCL-carrier can be spayed, where it is capable. Other countries would use only ncl-free dogs or euthanize carriers, 8-[ .

Offtopic:
Does the word "Nueter" stand for spay, but it concerns males?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,849 Posts
There are vets here spaying/neuting puppies at 9 weeks old. alot of breeders are using this because of "you never know" what people will do.... NCl is serious and so is BSl breeders have to be willing to do what they have to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I think that spaying at 8 week, should become more common in here too.

It would help breeders. Now you never know if some of your buyers is irresponsible... With sterilized bitch, it is impossible to have litters.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top