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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I noticed that some of the working people aren't usually over in the photo section so I decided to crosspost my photo post from there over to here. Thanks for looking!

Yesterday was such an AWESOME day to train! Couldn't ask for a better day to be out there so we did all 3 phases...what a long day. I wanted to get some pics during tracking but I forgot to take my camera out and everyone was too busy with their own dogs during ob so I only managed to have one of my club members' get a few during protection.

This is the second day we have started making things a little harder on Smooch. Up until now, during her bite devopment and hold and bark training, it was the helper coming to her to initiate the bark. Now she is being asked to "bring it" a little more and go to the helper while also being expected to work under a little bit of control, which up until this point, she had been allowed to work freely. So far she is handling the control work good (I was a little worried about how it would go) but I think she could have more intensity in her barking. Hopefully it is more due to confusion, rather than her work ethic, but only more time will tell me that. She is still not 2 yet, so she has time to mature and come into her own still. She is biting full and hard most times., which is good, but I am a real fan of the hold and bark exercise, and am not partial to a weak barker especially after working with Rosco who has an excellent hold and bark (when he's not being dirty..lol).. Hopefully she will work out.







taking it into the blind...



taking home her "prize"



chilling out in the yard this morning

 

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i have mixed felling on barking during bite work i like them silent i really dont know why i gess it brings back memories bear hunting with pop our dogs never barked unless told to
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i have mixed felling on barking during bite work i like them silent i really dont know why i gess it brings back memories bear hunting with pop our dogs never barked unless told to
Have you ever been to a Schutzhund trial before?

Part of the protection phase of the trial consists of the hold and bark exercise. The judge is looking for a clean, powerful bark in the blind. The dogs bark because they have been trained to.

I could see how barking would be detrimental during hunting...a barking dog would be a dead give away.
 

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One hard thing about training ABs in Schutzhund is getting them to bark. Lisa, do judges sometimes make special exceptions for breeds such as ABs who arent really barkers? I've talked to a few people who had very hard times getting their ABs to bark while holding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Puregrover said:
just starting to work my youngest with bite work
What exactly do you mean by "bitework"?? Just curious, that could mean many different things. Who are you training with?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
kogeki said:
One hard thing about training ABs in Schutzhund is getting them to bark. Lisa, do judges sometimes make special exceptions for breeds such as ABs who arent really barkers? I've talked to a few people who had very hard times getting their ABs to bark while holding.
Well, a good judge makes no exceptions. In fact, from my experience watching trials, and from what I have learned from talking to other people who have alot of experience trialing, the opposite is acutally true...meaning that judges judge the "alternate" breeds harder than they would a GSD...so if you have a bulldog, you better make sure its ready to trial before you enter!!

Personally, I don't buy the excuse that AB's aren't good barkers....in fact, Rosco has a very strong hold and bark, as do many other AB's involved in Schutzhund (Boyd's Coal Chamber is another that comes to mind)...if some can do it there is no reason why others can't. If someone has an AB that doesn't bark well, then maybe that person should ask themselves WHY?, I bet in at least some instances that there is an underlying reason... (e.g. nerves, poor work ethic). I know occasionally some dogs gets so locked in prey they just can't muster up a bark but I do not think this is the case all of the time..not even close. The whole thing about AB's not being good barkers seems kinda silly to me and my bet is the people who started with that "rumour" (for lack of a better word) probably had dogs that didn't bark well when asked during protection training...HMMMM. I just hate it when people make excuses for their dogs.

Good topic. :p
 

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jute sleve i train my self my breeder helps out when he can i have always trianed my dogs myself and never had a problem with any of them but thats not to say i will run into problems in the future and thats when i go to a profenshal
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Puregrover said:
jute sleve i train my self my breeder helps out when he can i have always trianed my dogs myself and never had a problem with any of them but thats not to say i will run into problems in the future and thats when i go to a profenshal
You obivously have no idea how much is involved and how technical "bitework" is. My guess is that if you keep it up you will ruin your dogs in no time. I hate it when I hear people doing this type of work on their own. Not only is it dangerous, but there is no doubt in my mind that you are teaching your dogs bad habits....not rewarding the dog at the right times, encouraging poor gripping and targetting, the list goes on and on. Do you have any idea how long it takes to fix problems that have been made due to poor training?

I highly recommend finding someone to train with that has some actual credentials and knows what they are doing...I could sit here all day telling you reasons why you should not be doing this. Do you have a website that you like to post pictures of this "work" onto or something? I know you are a breeder and lots of breeders like to take pictures of their dogs biting a sleeve, tug etc so they can put it up on their sites as a selling feature. I hope that is not the case but after reading your post about bitework I just couldn't help but ask.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Puregrover said:
and to answer your question have i ben to triles yes i have we show our dogs and hardest hitting and pp is on of my favorite events
I was not talking about hardest hitting comps and proetction tournaments about bulldog shows.....I was talking about a SCHUTZHUND trial.
 

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Puregrover.....

Who is your breeder you train in PP with? Just curious.

How do you do to prepare for the PP trial and who do you train with?

As for the barking, I don't think it is too hard to teach a bulldog to bark. It may not come as naturally to a bulldog than a shepard breed. You can decide to teach it or not. For SPORT, I like it, since it does teach the dog HOW to move the decoy. It teaches the dog rules of the game. Cleaner. Clearer.

In PP, I do not need it.

Actually, I kinda wish I did not teach my girl to bark. She never shuts up now.
 

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never been to an sch trial but would like to go to one get some advice and some tips it seams u work your dog a lot how offtin do u work him i do 2 to 3 times a week
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Puregrover,

I work with my dogs several times a week. A couple times a week at my club then of course out on my own doing obedience and tracking. Something else to consider is quality of the training. I would rather not work my dog at all if the quality of the helper/decoy work was bad. No training is better than bad training.

I too am curious as to who the breeder is that is helping you with this "bitework" training and what the methods are that he is using. Does he just use sleeves or sleeves and tugs?
 

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just a sleeve but the one he has is too thick for her mouth and the one i have is old and woren out just ordered 2 newones one with a little smaller bite bar so it can fit better in her mouth i do admit right now she isnt bitting poperly her bite is to shallow
 

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Please think twice before you teach your dog to bite.

If she is over 6 months old, why would this be too big for her mouth???? No disrespect, but some of the stuff you say make me think that you are a backyard agitator. That is why I was asking who your breeder was.

Anyways, please be careful!!!!!!!!

I don't know how you train your dog, but it sounds odd.

Bitebar fit in her mouth???? I don't get it. Unless the dog has had ZERO imprinting...........how can you enter PP tournaments if you cannot imprint properly and have only one sleeve?

Please be careful.
 

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she has a small head and the sleeve is to big for her mouth when she bites it gages her her mouth is very small and i would never tier her up and adatate her like that is is tied to a chain to a tree for right now in a harness in a leash with me handling her we are just starting to work her she is under contol at all times as far as my breeder hes no one u have ever herd of
 
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