What kind of tugs and or sleeves do you prefer to use with your dogs? What do you find lasts the longest? I prefer jute and I think the dogs do also but the french linen ones seem to hold up better. The firehose tugs suck! Just curious on what you guys use.
tugs
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I have a couple tugs I bought years ago but to be truthful I don't use them a whole lot.
I prefer to allow my helpers to do all the bitework personally. Keeps their drive up for the work (not that it matter to Rosco..lol) and its also quite easy to encourage bad habits by using tugs yourself if you are not experienced and understand when to reward the dog. You want the dog to win at the right time, that is very important. To keep my dogs motivated during obedience work I use food and a motivational ball like the ones here (scroll down the page)....
http://www.k9toolbox.com/tugstoys/index.html
You can still play "tug" with the ball when they bring it back to you (you can throw them real far and they come on a string), but without worry of giving them bad bites or encourage bad gripping and targetting like you would on a tug. If you give a dog bad bites and encourage the wrong things while you are using tugs, those bad habits will no doubt transfer to the bitework phase of your training. Trust me, I speak from experience. It takes lots of time to undo the bad habits taught from improper training. Go with the ball, you will be better off in the long run.
I prefer to allow my helpers to do all the bitework personally. Keeps their drive up for the work (not that it matter to Rosco..lol) and its also quite easy to encourage bad habits by using tugs yourself if you are not experienced and understand when to reward the dog. You want the dog to win at the right time, that is very important. To keep my dogs motivated during obedience work I use food and a motivational ball like the ones here (scroll down the page)....
http://www.k9toolbox.com/tugstoys/index.html
You can still play "tug" with the ball when they bring it back to you (you can throw them real far and they come on a string), but without worry of giving them bad bites or encourage bad gripping and targetting like you would on a tug. If you give a dog bad bites and encourage the wrong things while you are using tugs, those bad habits will no doubt transfer to the bitework phase of your training. Trust me, I speak from experience. It takes lots of time to undo the bad habits taught from improper training. Go with the ball, you will be better off in the long run.
I still use the tugs a lot. I still always "fix" or set their grips, always going back to their foundation. LOL. I think I have more fun than them.
As for the tug material, I have all three and all sizes, depending on what I am working on.
I use the real big leg tug to work on young dogs to open their mouth wider. french linen.
I use the french linen ones on younger dogs. Softer on their mouths.
I use a jute ones for rewards. I got a couple of sizes.
I LOVE the large firehose tugs when used with adult dogs. When posting the dogs, the tug gets real slippery and they have to bite HARD to keep the tug. They really bite hard on this tug. They love it and they last forever!
As for sleeves, I have a puppy, intermediate, and a trial one. Basically, I use the sleeve as a tug. I like the bite bar. I use one from Jerry Bradshaw (tarheels) puppy and Jan Kox (I think that is how you spell it).
DAMMMMMMMMMMM I spend a lot of bucks on this dog stuff!!!!!!!! Stupid. :lol: :wink:
As for the tug material, I have all three and all sizes, depending on what I am working on.
I use the real big leg tug to work on young dogs to open their mouth wider. french linen.
I use the french linen ones on younger dogs. Softer on their mouths.
I use a jute ones for rewards. I got a couple of sizes.
I LOVE the large firehose tugs when used with adult dogs. When posting the dogs, the tug gets real slippery and they have to bite HARD to keep the tug. They really bite hard on this tug. They love it and they last forever!
As for sleeves, I have a puppy, intermediate, and a trial one. Basically, I use the sleeve as a tug. I like the bite bar. I use one from Jerry Bradshaw (tarheels) puppy and Jan Kox (I think that is how you spell it).
DAMMMMMMMMMMM I spend a lot of bucks on this dog stuff!!!!!!!! Stupid. :lol: :wink:
I've bought a few french linen tugs from k9toolbox and all are still in one piece. I love their stuff.attitude said:k9 toobox has some nice tugs. i like the french linnen he has but he also has jute if that is what you prefer. for me personally, nothing beats an ebinger sleeve
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If you have a good understanding on what to promote while using the tug, then go for it! Unfortunately many people just getting into the sport/pp stuff don't and end up teaching their dogs bad habits. I had all kinds of tugs when Rosco was a puppy and never used them right. Ended up teaching him that biting the tip was acceptable,amongst other things..it transferred to the protection work and took a while to fix!
Both dogs have always gone for the end of the tugs or whatever we were playing with but I wouldnt play until they bite the middle. When Loki bites the end I say center and she'll bite center. She doesn't win until she gives a full bite and really fights for it. Its funny, if I let her win and it wasnt a great fight because I was feeling lazy or something, she wont parade around with it like she normally does. She'll just stand there staring at me like WTF? Thats all you got? :lol: I read quite a bit about Schutzhund and other working stuff before I got Loki and everything I read stressed the importance of playing tug correctly.
Kogeki.....
"She doesn't win until she gives a full bite and really fights for it." your quote.
Actually, she is in play, prey, so it may work. However, fundamentally, and LATER on in her training, this is not ideal.
I tell you why, because I made the exact same mistake. I go to bulldog shows and almost ALL of the people playing around with tugs make the same mistake.
The reward MUST be the winning of the toy. Later on, domination of decoy. Right now, the reward for her is "playing or fighting" with the tug with YOU. think about what you are doing. In the beginning stages, this works. However, what about when the dog goes into fight and into a bit of defence when worked real hard from a strange decoy? Where is the reward? How have you imprinted her to WIN? So far, you just taught her to fight harder to win. That is the REAL fundamental imprinting question that must be asked. More fight? More bite? (that is what you are teaching her). This causes MORE and MORE defence and no avenue to release the stress of bitework. There is no where to CHANNEL her drives. Should it not be the WINNING of the decoy's possession and later on, WINNING or domination of the decoy (stops fighting in a submissive stance)?
the thing is....in order for her to win, progressively, she will naturally fight harder, the right way, by countering in HARD, perfect targeting, deep bites.
If you want to increase her drive and make her parade with her "winning" , make it harder for her to get it in the first place. a TUG must be earned.....not given. That is why post work is sooooooo important. Make it hard. If she has a shallow fanger bite, MAKE HER PAY! (twisting movment dogs do not like). When she counters for full grip, THEN let her win.
Tug work is use to TEACH the dog how to win. bite deep.......win. counter in.......win. center bite hard........win. fast fast rebite......win.
"She doesn't win until she gives a full bite and really fights for it." your quote.
Actually, she is in play, prey, so it may work. However, fundamentally, and LATER on in her training, this is not ideal.
I tell you why, because I made the exact same mistake. I go to bulldog shows and almost ALL of the people playing around with tugs make the same mistake.
The reward MUST be the winning of the toy. Later on, domination of decoy. Right now, the reward for her is "playing or fighting" with the tug with YOU. think about what you are doing. In the beginning stages, this works. However, what about when the dog goes into fight and into a bit of defence when worked real hard from a strange decoy? Where is the reward? How have you imprinted her to WIN? So far, you just taught her to fight harder to win. That is the REAL fundamental imprinting question that must be asked. More fight? More bite? (that is what you are teaching her). This causes MORE and MORE defence and no avenue to release the stress of bitework. There is no where to CHANNEL her drives. Should it not be the WINNING of the decoy's possession and later on, WINNING or domination of the decoy (stops fighting in a submissive stance)?
the thing is....in order for her to win, progressively, she will naturally fight harder, the right way, by countering in HARD, perfect targeting, deep bites.
If you want to increase her drive and make her parade with her "winning" , make it harder for her to get it in the first place. a TUG must be earned.....not given. That is why post work is sooooooo important. Make it hard. If she has a shallow fanger bite, MAKE HER PAY! (twisting movment dogs do not like). When she counters for full grip, THEN let her win.
Tug work is use to TEACH the dog how to win. bite deep.......win. counter in.......win. center bite hard........win. fast fast rebite......win.
I COMPLETELY agree with Peter. Thats how we do tug work, We really screwed up our first female always making the tug a fight and later made her extrmely hectic and never knew when the fight was over. Now tug work should be about building drive..miss..miss...misss then reward, i always cradle my tugs afterwards, gives them the time to release from the stress and feel better about their win. Tug work is really impt can make or break your days in protection in the future. I use ball for reward and building drive, but i do use tugs too for a switch and i use the leather tugs, great rewards
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