[wrknrott]

He is hired by many police forces to do evaluations of their working stock as well, and by this I am hoping to get help to evaluate and choose a nice potential from one of his future litters

Being that I have worked with some of the police departments between Sacramento and San Francisco, which all have GSD's and Mal's... what departments was it that sought out Jose's experience for their working stock? Not that I would neccessarily, but haven't heard of Jose through LEO sources.... although I know of Jose from other sources.

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[Redbull]

I'll have to ask him. I remember him talking about the various quality of dogs that he's met...and how it all relayed back to the department's budget. Some dogs were put on the force with hardly any formal training or titling at all (and this was why they brought in ppl to evaluate them).

I think it must have been departments from out west as well. He used to live in the East bay area of San Fransisco, not sure where he's done evaluation work though - just remember the talks about the quality of dogs from force to force, depending on the size of the town and budget they have.

What does LEO stand for?

I'll be chatting to him this weekend and I'll find out who he's done work for in the past.

 

[wrknrott]

recap......

yep. just wanna hear what ppl think of my future pup's sire, regardless of his owner being a loong-time PSA trainer / handler / trialer / judge and knowing what he's doing :wink: He's been doing it (training, holding trials, and judging internationally) longer than most ppl on this board have owned these dogs or even known about them.

Hardly anyone on this board owns a dog like this (or knows very much about manstoppers) so I sort of know what to expect from ppl over here by now, but curious to hear opinions anyway hate away, or love away, I want all your opinions on the MEATHEAD

Yep this was Evans second post (fourth total on the topic he started) and at this point in the thread, Evan has already begun dishing out kudos to Jose's accomplishments and nobody asked in the posts before?

Must be to get a rise out of the true working folks here... then after stirring the sh!t Evan writes:

Yes I stated these things in this thread, because I was being challenged about him. I did not in anyway state that he is currently working in PSA, or that he has a working program. These were all assumptions made by posters in this thread. Yes he breeds for the show ring, but more often than not he does breed for drive, more so than other breeders of bully AB's. Meathead may not be a very drivey AB, and it's true, I have nothing to base my claim on in my initial post, so I am wrong to be making a claim like that about him.. But the point of what I am getting at is that he is able to evaluate and know his stock and what he is working with and what he expects from his litters.

No Evan... it was you that promoted Jose as being/having way more experience in all aspects of the dog world from the begining. Not to mention way more than any one of us that might comment on meathead. So this was your way of disqualifying our opinions as haters and the only opinions that you were looking for was from those who don't know any better! Like yourself....

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[wrknrott]

I'll have to ask him. I remember him talking about the various quality of dogs that he's met...and how it all relayed back to the department's budget. Some dogs were put on the force with hardly any formal training or titling at all (and this was why they brought in ppl to evaluate them). I think it must have been departments from out west as well. He used to live in the East bay area of San Fransisco, not sure where he's done evaluation work though - just remember the talks about the quality of dogs from force to force, depending on the size of the town and budget they have.

This is common knowledge in the working dog community and does not take a direct association to form this statement.

What does LEO stand for?

Law Enforcement Officer

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[yungster]

I try to stay off these threads since I don't know jack about working dogs. But as for pets -- I think as far as looks go, it's a personal preference, and redbull has always liked bullier type ABs. Carrie has/had some great looking bully ABs too, I'd be curious to see what she thinks. I don't know much about drive, but I think he's a great looking dog, and look forward to seeing his pups someday as well. To me, he looks like he's having fun with the sleeve, and you can't deny his INTEREST in it, even if you doubt his ABILITY.

Just wanna say good luck with your puppy! I'm sure he will be well loved.

 

[Redbull]

Re: recap......

No Evan... it was you that promoted Jose as being/having way more experience in all aspects of the dog world from the begining. Not to mention way more than any one of us that might comment on meathead. So this was your way of disqualifying our opinions as haters and the only opinions that you were looking for was from those who don't know any better! Like yourself....

You are mistaken. I posted that he had more knowledge than anyone who had posted in the thread up till that point...and I posted that because I was a bit pissed that ppl were being so petty and full of assumptions about me and my intentions / reasons for getting a pup from him.

Anyhow, I am not trying to disqualify any opinions (except for opinions made through this video alone, without putting into perspective what is actually being done in the video - being chained and decoyed by owner - was only telling ppl to keep that in mind)...and yeah I was being a tad defensive. But I stated what my intentions are and why I am getting a dog from him, so I don't know why people would question that by stating the obvious about working AB programs, performance dogs, etc?

I've stated 8 times or so why I am getting a dog from him, but you still fail to see that I guess. Maybe you just like to bicker, insult and such?

I don't think I am being hard to understand or even uncivil or challenging atm.

 

[Redbull]

This is common knowledge in the working dog community and does not take a direct association to form this statement.

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Again, not quite sure why you're being confrontational by insinuating that he's a liar because he made known statements. He specifically said he's done much evaluation work, I am DONE with being petty over this with you. You don't believe him, YOU talk to him LOL.

If you really want to know, go email him yourself and I am sure he'll respond to you without question. Not sure what you're trying to prove here atm. You are making insinuations and speculations about him, how about you get facts before making statements like that. You know how to contact him if you want references lol.

 

[Redbull]

I try to stay off these threads since I don't know jack about working dogs. But as for pets -- I think as far as looks go, it's a personal preference, and redbull has always liked bullier type ABs. Carrie has/had some great looking bully ABs too, I'd be curious to see what she thinks. I don't know much about drive, but I think he's a great looking dog, and look forward to seeing his pups someday as well. To me, he looks like he's having fun with the sleeve, and you can't deny his INTEREST in it, even if you doubt his ABILITY.

Just wanna say good luck with your puppy! I'm sure he will be well loved.

Thanks. And I think if people want to comment on what they expect from this breeding, they have got to see video of the dam as well. The sire only provides %50 of the dna that goes into any breeding.

People are speculating that I am crazy to even consider being able to get a working dog from this breeder. I think they don't have the knowledge on his stock to comment about that. If it was a breeding with MH + Velvet, then they have to take both dogs into account. Same if I go with a breeding between Manstopper's Ironman Tyson of MGK and another of his stock. You basically can't make assumptions based on one dog alone.

 

[wrknrott]

This is common knowledge in the working dog community and does not take a direct association to form this statement.

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Again, not quite sure why you're being confrontational by insinuating that he's a liar because he made known statements. He specifically said he's done much evaluation work, I am DONE with being petty over this with you. You don't believe him, YOU talk to him LOL.

If you really want to know, go email him yourself and I am sure he'll respond to you without question. Not sure what you're trying to prove here atm. You are making insinuations and speculations about him, how about you get facts before making statements like that. You know how to contact him if you want references lol.

I'm not in any way incinuating that Jose is a liar.... I think that the probable occurance is that you are putting words out there that might not be correct or half truths......

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[Redbull]

I'm not in any way incinuating that Jose is a liar.... I think that the probable occurance is that you are putting words out there that might not be correct or half truths......

It's not a half-truth or myth or assumption on my behalf. I am only repeating what I was told verbatim. This is why I say to contact him directly, so ppl don't have to call me a liar or myth-creator. I don't know everything that ppl ask either, but what I do know I have said. If people want to know specifics, he is the best person to ask.

 

[Lisa]

To me, he looks like he's having fun with the sleeve, and you can't deny his INTEREST in it, even if you doubt his ABILITY.

INTEREST, in a sense Is drive, and like wrknrott and nelson are trying to say, it looks like that dog is lacking it. Maybe if you have seen high drive dogs you would understand where they are coming from. The dog may show some drive (I have seen dogs show less), however, most working dog folk are looking for alot more that what that video demonstrates.

A dog does not need to feel a real threat in order to bite out of PREY. Of course a good balance of both prey and defence is ideal (some peoples ratios are going to differ) but to me prey drive is the strongest drive a dog can have and defence the weakest. I will take a high prey dog ANY DAY (as long as its nerves are good). Personally, I like the dogs who go out there just wanting to crush the decoy, just because they want to....:lol: :lol: :lol: This dog seems to lack that. When I think high (prey) drive, I picture a dog that is barking and lunging, and generally just going insane. This dog seems a little more lacklustre. Even with the decoys big time prey movement (waving his arm around in the air) the dog seems to lack some intensity, especially for a raw dog who has seen no control and is basically being allowed to work freely. What would happen to this dog if control was demanded? My guess is he would look even flatter than he does in this video. .

It would have been good to see more of the decoys actions than what was shown in this video too. I think that would expose even more to us.

 

[wrknrott]

Re: recap......

No Evan... it was you that promoted Jose as being/having way more experience in all aspects of the dog world from the begining. Not to mention way more than any one of us that might comment on meathead. So this was your way of disqualifying our opinions as haters and the only opinions that you were looking for was from those who don't know any better! Like yourself....

You are mistaken. I posted that he had more knowledge than anyone who had posted in the thread up till that point...and I posted that because I was a bit pissed that ppl were being so petty and full of assumptions about me and my intentions / reasons for getting a pup from him.

Only two people posted before you started spouting your mouth and one of those posts was "ditto" to tia's post that stated they didn't find favor in the training.

Anyhow, I am not trying to disqualify any opinions (except for opinions made through this video alone, without putting into perspective what is actually being done in the video - being chained and decoyed by owner - was only telling ppl to keep that in mind)...and yeah I was being a tad defensive. But I stated what my intentions are and why I am getting a dog from him, so I don't know why people would question that by stating the obvious about working AB programs, performance dogs, etc?

At this point Evan, everyone knows what you like structurally in a AB and nobody questions that. And ever since I've joined you seem to be infatuated with championing the working ability of bully AB types. You make statements about working ability, then 50 post later say you never did…..

I've stated 8 times or so why I am getting a dog from him, but you still fail to see that I guess. Maybe you just like to bicker, insult and such?

You need to go back and read what you spew.... I heard you the first time, I think everyone has heard you the first time!

Insults..., you bring all this on yourself! If I were Jose I wouldn't let you within a 100 yards of my kennel and I would find someone else to do my website!

I have come to the conclusion that you either hit the bottle too hard when you post or you are truly just a dumb ass! And will most likely never contribute positevely to the bully working dog!

And I'm LMFAO once again over another classic REDBULL thread!!!!

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[wrknrott]

To me, he looks like he's having fun with the sleeve, and you can't deny his INTEREST in it, even if you doubt his ABILITY.

INTEREST, in a sense Is drive, and like wrknrott and nelson are trying to say, it looks like that dog is lacking it. Maybe if you have seen high drive dogs you would understand where they are coming from. The dog may show some drive (I have seen dogs show less), however, most working dog folk are looking for alot more that what that video demonstrates.

A dog does not need to feel a real threat in order to bite out of PREY. Of course a good balance of both prey and defence is ideal (some peoples ratios are going to differ) but to me prey drive is the strongest drive a dog can have and defence the weakest. I will take a high prey dog ANY DAY (as long as its nerves are good). Personally, I like the dogs who go out there just wanting to crush the decoy, just because they want to....:lol: :lol: :lol: This dog seems to lack that. When I think high (prey) drive, I picture a dog that is barking and lunging, and generally just going insane. This dog seems a little more lacklustre. Even with the decoys big time prey movement (waving his arm around in the air) the dog seems to lack some intensity, especially for a raw dog who has seen no control and is basically being allowed to work freely. What would happen to this dog if control was demanded? My guess is he would look even flatter than he does in this video. .

It would have been good to see more of the decoys actions than what was shown in this video too. I think that would expose even more to us.

The couple times that I have....

When I put the equipment on with my own dog, I get the look from my dog like "oh you just went and focked up now" !!!! The fight is on!!! :lol:


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[wrknrott]

I'm not in any way incinuating that Jose is a liar.... I think that the probable occurance is that you are putting words out there that might not be correct or half truths......

It's not a half-truth or myth or assumption on my behalf. I am only repeating what I was told verbatim. This is why I say to contact him directly, so ppl don't have to call me a liar or myth-creator. I don't know everything that ppl ask either, but what I do know I have said. If people want to know specifics, he is the best person to ask.

Maybe, maybe not...... you do have a track record for it though!

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[attitude]

I asked you a question about your apbt friend, and about acting as decoy for a dog that you own, which is not normally done (for a reason). How is that arguing?

there is nothing wrong with agitating your own dog as long as you understand what drive it is you will be working in and what you can accomplish with it. again, you should really stop talking about things you have no understanding of. i hope that you will be taking someone with you to evaluate the "potential" of your new pup and that you don't plan on doin it yourself

 

[Redbull]

I asked you a question about your apbt friend, and about acting as decoy for a dog that you own, which is not normally done (for a reason). How is that arguing?

there is nothing wrong with agitating your own dog as long as you understand what drive it is you will be working in and what you can accomplish with it. again, you should really stop talking about things you have no understanding of. i hope that you will be taking someone with you to evaluate the "potential" of your new pup and that you don't plan on doin it yourself

This is why I was asking the question. I wanted to know ahout it because I remember reading a conversation on a working board ages ago...it was a couple working ppl arguing over the topic, one person was doubting the effectiveness of training like this and the other person was describing how they were doing it. I don't really know what you mean about why I shouldn't talk about things I don't know anything about, when I am asking questions to people who do know about it. I wanted to know his opinion on decoying and taking bites from your own dog.

I'd be willing to take someone down with me for a day or two from my area to see his dogs, maybe the psa ab trainer who lives down the street from me if he's up to it. I haven't gone to visit him yet but he has a psa I titled ab. his name is hell's gates over on the true-grit board. Would be cool if I can get someone to come, especially if they were a trained decoy.

 

[MANSTOPPERS]

Man... I just posted a reply that took about 2 hours to type....

I'm 2 depressed to type it all again right now... not even sure if I care enough to even attempt it....

Is anyone who commented on this thread still actively posting???

How about the dude with the Rot in the avatar??? Hey.. do you recognize the trainer in my avatar??? If you have working Rots in Nor Cal I would assume you would have to... maybe you can ask him about me and it will save me a whole other 2 hours of my life....

I'll come back later...

 

[susymn]

Everybody from this posting are very active, so, they may post any time.
by the way I love very bully ABs like yours, I don't know too much about breeding them, but they looks great!
How long have you been breeding?

 

[MANSTOPPERS]

Thanks....

We have been doing it for about 12 years now... We started with the Hybrids and have gravitated towards the Bullies...

Thanks again for the kind words... Jose

 

[wrknrott]

Old thread.... :roll:

Nope.... your avatar isn't clear enough for me to tell who that is. And frankly, I don't really care who you are or what you have done.... no dis, just don't care. The whole opposition to the thread was that RedBull was shooting his mouth off again about things he has very little experience about and as he often does, brings other people (you) into it.

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