[Lisa]

I will start.

When I trained at my first Schutzhund club, my training director had this mindset that the "dog should RESPECT the helper". His way of cleaning up a dog who was dirty (even just bumping) in the blind was to give it a hard stick hit with the reed stick in the face/head area. My trainer did this to my dog and he was almost blinded. His eye was all red and bloodshot after and I had to get him checked out by a vet and lie about what happened. It was awful and I was furious...needless to say I don't train their anymore.

Anyways, who in their right mind would expect or want their dog to respect the bad guy?? That makes no sense to me but I guess that is the "sport" mindset that so many people in Schutzhund seem to have. Not only that but wouldn't you want your dog to engage a helper who did this? The whole theory seems ass backwards to me. Thoughts?

In your experiences training working dogs, what has been the worst thing you have seen done on the field by a trainer? Not a novice, but someone who SHOULD know better.

Look forward to reading a few replies.

 

[attitude]

i think one of the things that pissed me off the most was decoy related (tho i do have a seminar related thing that had me fumin!)

trainer wanted to "re-direct" a upper body dog . so his "brainstorm was to leave off the jacket! yeehaaa! even tho i vehemently objected, sayin someone wud get hurt. he thought this was a good idea
#-o

needless to say it only took 3 stitches to close the punctures in the decoys tricep

 

[LegendsMami]

Re: What are some of the WORST training methods you have see

His way of cleaning up a dog who was dirty (even just bumping) in the blind was to give it a hard stick hit with the reed stick in the face/head area. My trainer did this to my dog and he was almost blinded. His eye was all red and bloodshot after and I had to get him checked out by a vet and lie about what happened.

Yikes!!!I would have been pissed! Did the trainer apologize? Offer to pay vet bills?

 

[wrknrott]

i think one of the things that pissed me off the most was decoy related (tho i do have a seminar related thing that had me fumin!)

trainer wanted to "re-direct" a upper body dog . so his "brainstorm was to leave off the jacket! yeehaaa! even tho i vehemently objected, sayin someone wud get hurt. he thought this was a good idea
#-o

needless to say it only took 3 stitches to close the punctures in the decoys tricep

I guess it proved that the dog wasn't equipment conditioned.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[wrknrott]

Lisa.... I must say that as I was reading your post I could finish the sentence in my head before reading it completely :wink: Sound like we have had some very similar training experiences!

One of my peeves about training is.... not every dog is the same therefore why would you use the same methods for every dog! Each dog should have an individual program based on it's strengths and weaknesses. Strong sport dogs need to respect the game if it is their owners desire to compete at a higher level. Softer dogs learn that they can dominate the decoy and that the only real pressure (from the sport) is from the handler.... this wouldn't be a dog that I would have in my kennel though!

In PP no dog should never be respectful of the decoy! No training methods should be used that teach the dog otherwise.

I recently came across a training concept on this board that I would have to say ranks as the WORST! :roll:

8)

 

[Tia]

One of the worst was when i was at a trial and whenthe judge looked away (godfreid) the handler kicked his dog in the face, for me that is bad training if your dog is still acting up during the trial , wasnt meant to be trialing that day and YOUR work failed.
Another was with a old club i use to train with ( they r new but SO OLD SCHOOL) when training the blinds and they got dirty would stick hit them in the nose and make some bleed, was really disgusting. and they would do the BH routine EVERY TRAINING SESSION!!!! it was pathetic. They didnt use ANY reward what so ever, they should do it out of "respect" in a way i do believe that but without a ball,tug etc theres no drive and the exercise looks awful! :shock:
I really believe for schutzhund anyways that pure compulsion is the WORST method out there

 

[attitude]

oh, how bout the trainer that did a muzzle hold on an 8 week old puppy, till it threw up, then aspirated vomit into it's lungs and almost died. yet she "never noticed" the dog was in distress?
now THAT is a trainer i wanna go to!
#-o

 

[attitude]

OR, how bout the "trainer" that got so mad at a dog that wudn't listen he kicked it to death . dog had some animal aggression issues. guess he figured that was the "humane" way to deal with them.
or the "master trainer" that had a dog dying of cancer. was to expensive to take her to the vet or shoot her (those bullets r expensive you know) so he simply stopped feeding her .



so many trainer horror stories it really isn't funny :scratch: trainers are a dime a dozen, good trainers are gold . it is sad when it becomes "just a business" and all care and respect for the animals is lost

 

[SisMorphine]

I saw at a trial a guy (advised by his trainer) fry his dog on the e-collar the whole way to the field (where he had to take the e-collar off before entering). He said it was to make the dog think the e-collar was still on him while he was trialing. Makes no sense to me, you just fried your dog for walking!!!!

 

[bigut64]

OR, how bout the "trainer" that got so mad at a dog that wudn't listen he kicked it to death . dog had some animal aggression issues. guess he figured that was the "humane" way to deal with them.
or the "master trainer" that had a dog dying of cancer. was to expensive to take her to the vet or shoot her (those bullets r expensive you know) so he simply stopped feeding her .



so many trainer horror stories it really isn't funny :scratch: trainers are a dime a dozen, good trainers are gold . it is sad when it becomes "just a business" and all care and respect for the animals is lost

That is insane, were these experienced trainers prosecuted?

 

[attitude]

OR, how bout the "trainer" that got so mad at a dog that wudn't listen he kicked it to death . dog had some animal aggression issues. guess he figured that was the "humane" way to deal with them.
or the "master trainer" that had a dog dying of cancer. was to expensive to take her to the vet or shoot her (those bullets r expensive you know) so he simply stopped feeding her .



so many trainer horror stories it really isn't funny :scratch: trainers are a dime a dozen, good trainers are gold . it is sad when it becomes "just a business" and all care and respect for the animals is lost

That is insane, were these experienced trainers prosecuted?

some were, some weren't.

 

[bigut64]

some were, some weren't.

That is rediculous, did nobody around have the balls to call the police on the guys that killed their dogs?

 

[attitude]

some were, some weren't.

That is rediculous, did nobody around have the balls to call the police on the guys that killed their dogs?

trainers lie when "accidents" happen. animal control and the spca have there hands tied in alot of situations. the crime can be reported but people can't be charged unless it can be proven. look at the woman who towed her dog behind her car to "teach it to listen" numerous witnesses, badly injured dog. she STILL ended up getting that poor animal back.
laws need to be changed and until they are, and regulations are put into effect governing animal trainers they will get away with, literally, murder. that is why i will alway advocate screening a dog trainer with as much care as you would a baby sitter.

 

[peeblerelf]

oh, how bout the trainer that did a muzzle hold on an 8 week old puppy, till it threw up, then aspirated vomit into it's lungs and almost died. yet she "never noticed" the dog was in distress?
now THAT is a trainer i wanna go to!
#-o

Oh yeah! Was there when that one happened. I even said "something's wrong" when it happened, but she knew better and told me the dog was just "struggling because i'm putting her in her place". Then the puppy started to lose it's balance about 15 minutes after and had to be rushed to the vet. the trainer then turns around and says "well I didn't do anything wrong" and NOBODY offered to pay for any of the vet bills that had to be paid (almost $5k). Sad sad thing these days. I wouldn't trust many people with my dog thats for sure.

 

[PeterC]

when I had my am staff

I put a CKC CD on him. I did it with total compulsion. CRANK CRANK and more CRANK.

So, the worst training I saw was from ME. I learned from the wrong guy. 100% Koelher method from a local OB trainer.

In hindsight I know that is why my dogs hated OB.

I still have a ways to go, but at least my dogs love OB now.

 

[ambulldogpup]

People that hit there dogs on the face area for discpline. This just causes the dog to be fearful of hands and causes them to strike out in self-defense, even though someone just wants to pet them. This negative type of training is old school, although some people still use it :roll:

EDIT: Oh yeah, and does anyone remember that old british woman and her training methods? Oh god :shock: That woman never even should have had possession of a choke chain, those poor poor dogs.

 

[Lisa]

i think one of the things that pissed me off the most was decoy related (tho i do have a seminar related thing that had me fumin!)

trainer wanted to "re-direct" a upper body dog . so his "brainstorm was to leave off the jacket! yeehaaa! even tho i vehemently objected, sayin someone wud get hurt. he thought this was a good idea
#-o

needless to say it only took 3 stitches to close the punctures in the decoys tricep

GEEZ what a dumb ass. I guess this trainer has never heard of a POST. :roll:

He deserved to get bit.

 

[Lisa]

People that hit there dogs on the face area for discpline. This just causes the dog to be fearful of hands and causes them to strike out in self-defense, even though someone just wants to pet them. This negative type of training is old school, although some people still use it :roll:

I agree that this would ruin SOME dogs but quite truthfully if my dog turned into a fear biter because of a few smacks in the face I wouldn't want to own it anyways. A GOOD dog is not THAT easily ruined. I have used some pretty "creative" froms of discipline on my dog Rosco (because normal corrections are not too effective on him...prong, ecollar etc). I have even smacked him in the face to try and get him to be quiet in training (let the bashing begin) and you know what this dog is still as stable and friendly as they come. He loves people and besides protection training there is nothing in this world he would rather do than let people dote over him. Not a shy fear biter at all!

Heck, even after that stick hit in the eye during that training session in the blind..no stick or blind aversions!! Not all dogs are so wimpy that they will crumble from a little bad training or what some others will call "abusive" or "old school" (smacks in the face) handling. I am 110% for using postive training for teaching but there is a time and place for physical corrections and some dogs just need to be taken to the next level. Don't get me wrong I do not recommend the next level for for the majority of people and their dogs because it can be dangerous, but to say smacking dogs in the face turns dogs into fear biters is too much of a generalization IMO.

 

[ambulldogpup]

Lisa, you are right. Same thing with Abby, it would have to be a pretty hard hit at that to make Abby become a fear biter. I was more generalizing towards the small sensitive dogs (should have re-worded my other post better). One of my nieghbors has an annoying little mini dobe and when I try to pet it, it always tries to bite my hand off. I know the woman hits him, because i've heard her. Pretty much beats the poor thing. But I agree, bigger dogs like we have do need some kind of physical discipline at the right times.

 

[Grizwald]

I know this isn't related to schutzhund or anything but we took Griz to a puppy class and it was complete BS.

1. It was overcrowded. The trainer seemed disorganized about the scheduling and overbooked the class, and as a result there were about 30 people and their puppies in this one medium-sized room.

2. Worst of all, most of these people were uneducated, under-committed and inexperienced with dogs totally.

3. Next worst of all, most of them brought their kids, some even brought MULTIPLE kids! This made for about 50+ people in this room.

4. NEXT worst of all, most of these parents had little or no interest in the class - they congregated in the corners and chatted while the KIDS tried to listen to the trainer and follow the directions!

5. Most of these children were really bratty and badly behaved, which of course the "parents" (I say with sarcasm because so few deserve that title) thought was them being "spirited" or "cute."

6. The trainer made almost no attempt to demand calm quiet while she issued her directions, instead she shouted over all the barking puppies and screaming children.

7. At one point she wanted everyone to let the pups off leash and "mingle" while the humans were supposed to try to make them sit for a treat. The point was to get the pups used to taking a command and treat from a stranger, but of course all he|| broke loose. Within 2 minutes kids and puppies were wrestling on the floor, parents were yelling at their kids, puppies were snarling at other puppies, and the trainer was yelling at the parents who weren't yelling at the their kids.

Needless to say, we got out of there. I should have demanded my money back but I figure if she keeps that kind of "training" up her little business will do itself in quickly enough without my help.