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Discussion Starter #1
Im curious as to what it takes to be a decoy and how do people get certified and trained.Do you need military or police dog training?What types of people are right for a decoy job and who are wrong canidates for this type of work.
thanks in advance.
 

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stupid love of working dogs.

mostly stupid. Very stupid. Mainly, you cannot be afraid of getting bitten, this cannot be taught. Everything else can be learned. speed would help. If the decoy is fast, the dog will invariably counter faster, react faster.

You gotta be in shape. good cardio. You need some strength to DRIVE the dog forward. You need to read dogs and adept at interpreting it.

I wanted to train dogs from both sides of the leash.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah,
i figured alot of that.
Im thinking of getting involved with my next dog.as for being afraid of being biten,nobody likes to get bit but it comes with the territory.Ive actually been severly biten so i know what its all about,and i stuck with the breed so thats not to much of a worry,
thanks alot man..
 

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It is very rewarding.

You will see decoys flocking to dogs that have the rep of being really good. It is an interesting phenomenon.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So what breeds have impressed you the most through a pp stance.And what dog hd the most punishing bite and power.
thnxs in advance.
 

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calikeith said:
So what breeds have impressed you the most through a pp stance.And what dog hd the most punishing bite and power.
thnxs in advance.
It is not the breed per say. It was the individual dog that made the difference.

In general

The most impressive for sport work. no contest here...........belgian malinois.

most powerful bite............................................................american bulldog. a dog called mort. Crushing. Brutal bite. ridiculous power in jaws.
some ABs have a crushing bite. Some really bad. like pits, I suppose.
german shepards are also brutal (czech or slovac imports) I like them alot.


These are general, in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
PeterC said:
calikeith said:
So what breeds have impressed you the most through a pp stance.And what dog hd the most punishing bite and power.
thnxs in advance.
It is not the breed per say. It was the individual dog that made the difference.

In general

The most impressive for sport work. no contest here...........belgian malinois.
I had a feeling youd say that,it seems to be the genral belief that malinois are extreame drive and super athletic k9s,what do you think about these dogs biting there handlers alot,ive seen a handfull of videos were malinois turn a bite there handler.That trait seems far from ideal.
Im personaly into the working mastiff and apbts,so thatll be the next dog i get.I heard of Luciano ollivera up in my area
Possably ill go to him for the training of the dog..
 

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you are very lucky.

Lucillano Oliva is a MASTER trainer of bully dogs. You are probably near one of the best trainers of PP dog in the country. Certainly for bulldogs. I got my male off him. That is what I think of his dogs. I learn alot from him. AND he is a MASTER DECOY. The best I have ever seen. He holds decoy camps. He trains bulldogs that nobody can deal with. That is why I have respect for him. He has some very hard dogs.

He is a judge for PSA, WABA, NKC, ABA. Nice dogs in his yard.

I am not a pit sorta guy, but he has a buck skin pit that looks like a dachhund. Man, what a nice little dog! Nice. I think his decoy, Danny has it now. I really liked that little pit.

I am not a mal guy either. However, I am not blind. They are very easy to train and mature very quickly. Handler aggression? You get it in every breed, not just mals. You just deal with it when it surfaces.

If I was in northern cali or Oroville, I would be dying to train with him.

If you think I am hard as#, you should prepare yourself.

I envy you, Keith!

If you need his number, let me know. I can hook you up.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: you are very lucky.

PeterC said:
Lucillano Oliva is a MASTER trainer of bully dogs. You are probably near one of the best trainers of PP dog in the country. Certainly for bulldogs. I got my male off him. That is what I think of his dogs. I learn alot from him. AND he is a MASTER DECOY. The best I have ever seen. He holds decoy camps. He trains bulldogs that nobody can deal with. That is why I have respect for him. He has some very hard dogs.

He is a judge for PSA, WABA, NKC, ABA. Nice dogs in his yard.

I am not a pit sorta guy, but he has a buck skin pit that looks like a dachhund. Man, what a nice little dog! Nice. I think his decoy, Danny has it now. I really liked that little pit.

I am not a mal guy either. However, I am not blind. They are very easy to train and mature very quickly. Handler aggression? You get it in every breed, not just mals. You just deal with it when it surfaces.

If I was in northern cali or Oroville, I would be dying to train with him.

If you think I am hard as#, you should prepare yourself.

I envy you, Keith!

If you need his number, let me know. I can hook you up.
Well,
first i got to get my dog,just had my other put down last year,and am in a in between period,Im pretty hyped if i can get him to help out with my dog,or train it with him,ive heard hes sricktly a ab guy,which is fine.I was pulling my dog,and every one recomends him on every site,ill check him out.As for him being a hard ass,that dosent bother me,ive got a very thick skin and am willing to learn not to be a tuff guy or a jerk so it should be all good.I wonder how much he charges?
Anyways thanks peter,send me a pm with his # and ill call him up when i get the dog...
 

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keith

he trains presas, bandogs, pits, dutch shepards, malinois, and ABs. He is a bulldog guy, though.

When you get your doggie, give me a shout in my PM or email. I will get you his number then, no problem!

Good luck finding a prospect. It can be really hard. Just make sure what you want to do FIRST before you get the dog and the pup's parents are proven in that venue. I think you will save some money getting a new dog. LOL. I know I wasted thousands!

Exciting looking for a new dog, eh? Lots out there. Take your time.

what breed are you looking at?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: keith

PeterC said:
he trains presas, bandogs, pits, dutch shepards, malinois, and ABs. He is a bulldog guy, though.

When you get your doggie, give me a shout in my PM or email. I will get you his number then, no problem!

Good luck finding a prospect. It can be really hard. Just make sure what you want to do FIRST before you get the dog and the pup's parents are proven in that venue. I think you will save some money getting a new dog. LOL. I know I wasted thousands!

Exciting looking for a new dog, eh? Lots out there. Take your time.

what breed are you looking at?
Well,if i can get a top quality bandogge,that would be ideal.Ill always own a apbt since i truely enjoy the dogs temperment although i cant really justify buying one with the condition the breed is in today,It would have to be a "gooodddd!" one,and there are alot of good apbts out there, but in general the breeds screwed.I know of maybe 4 bandogge kennels working and testing there dogs in the usa,and i like two of them alot[wck9,thunderdome].
To tell you the truth ive been impressed by the abs out of Steve Leclares kennel and ive heard about the hines blood being real nice also so its not so much the breed but the quality individuals within the breeds im interested in.im gonna shot for a top quality bandogge and if that runs dry ill focus on another breed apbt,ab,presa etc..
 

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Re: stupid love of working dogs.

PeterC said:
mostly stupid. Very stupid. Mainly, you cannot be afraid of getting bitten, this cannot be taught. Everything else can be learned. speed would help. If the decoy is fast, the dog will invariably counter faster, react faster.

You gotta be in shape. good cardio. You need some strength to DRIVE the dog forward. You need to read dogs and adept at interpreting it.

I wanted to train dogs from both sides of the leash.

LOL that about sums it up right there Peter. I also wanted to know what it felt like to be on both sides of the leash. It seems to help you read your own dog better when you have been the one taking the bites. When I decided that I wanted to be a decoy I just jumped in the suit and started taking lessons from my trainer, being hurt in the process was not in my mind. Of course the joke was on me the first time, he threw me in a real light top and let loose a GSD on me. That one hurt more then a few days thats for sure.

Two days after first bites.





A week later after a few more bites.










Getting bit is just part of it, if you do it, you don't go in scared. You have to be able to think on your feet and keep yourself safe and the dog safe as well. Jamming a dog is a awful thing to do and I see it in videos all the time and just cringe.
 

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Re: stupid love of working dogs.

RED said:
PeterC said:
mostly stupid. Very stupid. Mainly, you cannot be afraid of getting bitten, this cannot be taught. Everything else can be learned. speed would help. If the decoy is fast, the dog will invariably counter faster, react faster.

You gotta be in shape. good cardio. You need some strength to DRIVE the dog forward. You need to read dogs and adept at interpreting it.

I wanted to train dogs from both sides of the leash.

LOL that about sums it up right there Peter. I also wanted to know what it felt like to be on both sides of the leash. It seems to help you read your own dog better when you have been the one taking the bites. When I decided that I wanted to be a decoy I just jumped in the suit and started taking lessons from my trainer, being hurt in the process was not in my mind. Of course the joke was on me the first time, he threw me in a real light top and let loose a GSD on me. That one hurt more then a few days thats for sure.

Two days after first bites.





A week later after a few more bites.










Getting bit is just part of it, if you do it, you don't go in scared. You have to be able to think on your feet and keep yourself safe and the dog safe as well. Jamming a dog is a awful thing to do and I see it in videos all the time and just cringe.

DAMN! that's pretty man! you must be some kinda arteeeest!
 

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calikeith said:
darn LOOKS PRETTY GNARLY,LOL

As soon as I took the suit off it looked like this. Of course it never looked that bad again, I got a wrap to put on under the suit for some better protection. It will always have a nice pinch to the bite and yes it can and does hurt.


 

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Discussion Starter #17
RED said:
calikeith said:
darn LOOKS PRETTY GNARLY,LOL

As soon as I took the suit off it looked like this. Of course it never looked that bad again, I got a wrap to put on under the suit for some better protection. It will always have a nice pinch to the bite and yes it can and does hurt.

Oh i know it can hurt,I had the unfortunate event of being bitten in the left wrist area,took 25 stiches to close the bite area,plus punture wounds to be right bicept and leg.This was on skin directly.and it was to brutal to even feel pain.It sucked....
 

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wrknrott said:
Hehehehehe...... #-o hey Red, that's a good one! Brings back so many memories :wink:

8)

Yeah it was one of the better ones that most see. The part that's bad is, they figured that I would just give in and stop taking the punishment. Finally they felt bad for me and gave me the wrap. LMAO good times I tell ya.


Oh and it was not until the next day did I realize what everybody was laughing at while I was taking that beating. When my arm looked like it did, I know they were putting me through the ringer. ](*,)
 

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I am binging back an old post, DECOYING

Red, let me first say this I feel sorry for you. Your trainer should have first began to teach you the art of decoying in a suit. For one, it sounds like, and looks like you where started in a comp-suit and you are a rookie. Trainers we all know this isn't how you start someone, first your going to hurt someone with an eager mind to learn, and second you risk the chance of also injuring your dogs. I'll be honest bruises, bites, and injuries do come along with the job, but stupidity in training a rookie decoy and turning him into a bite dummy doesn't make you a better trainer or funny it makes you ignorent. How as a trainer can you tell someone to take the time to train technique and move slowly and then take your rookie decoy and toss him to the wolves. Red, nothing personal to you but you didn't belong in a comp suit, and to top this all off did your trainer at least have the decience to lend you some neoprine gauntlets, or if he's going to put you in a comp-suit, teach you what slipedge means, or how to make a proper bite bar from the material of the suit. A comp-suit is for experienced decoys, not rookies.

Red as a trainer, I would have been much more interested in hearing you tell others about your first experience in the suit, more favorably. Start off telling us how you were trained to properly catch a dog, so to not hurt you or the dog. How your trainer worked with you on how to target the dog to specific areas of the suit, and presentation. If he worked legs with you, why to teach the dog to bite with his/her head on the outside VS the inside (to anyone who is unaware teach the dog to bite with his head turned out, a dog that bites with his head turned in can damage or break the dog's neck). To also share with us technique's your trainer shared with you to avoid injuries to yourself and the dogs.

Red the art of catching a dog and placement along with the knowledge to avoid injuries (proper equipment based upon your knowledge, how to slip the bite, under armour for added protection) can take quite some time no different then each dog is different, each decoy is different. Everyone brings in there own amount of atletic ablity, along with there knowledge of dog training. To everyone remember this a decoy today must also be a trainer the days of decoys as agitators only for the most part is old thinking. A good decoy vs a bad decoy can make wonders, between a good sesion and sesion where your dog regresses vs progresses. You want to see a good club I guarantee you will find good decoys, along with a strong core of decoys/trainers to train the future of decoys into somthing greater then we are today.

Trainers, we all agree in regards to teaching a dog technique, even if our techniques themselves differ, so why should this be different for our decoys. Are we not still training, and yes, I agree a human may be different then a dog/puppy, but would anyone train there puppy the same as we would the top dog in our group, no, we would not. So, what is truly the difference between a prospective puppy pupil and RED. IMO there is no difference.

Red if you are still interested in becoming a decoy, look for decoy seminars put on by a French Ring, Mondio Ring, PSA, Schutzhund or etc. type of club. Also Red look into purchasing a training suit, I know the temptation may be there to purchase maybe a semi-comp suit, but IMO you should start off in a training suit. I say this through experience, I do own a comp-suit (Eurochien), and don't get me wrong I also use it for training but it will not make you a better decoy when you are worried about the pain of the upcoming bite more then teaching yourself the importance of proper technique.

If you are looking for a good bite suit, look at Demanet, Eurochien, JM costumes, Euro Joe, Roca Sport or Costumes Freddy. All the suits I have mentioned are made from french linen except the Roca Sport that is made in Mexico. All these suits have earned a reputation in the training and compatition arena for ringsports. I prefer Eurochien and Demanet, and in regards to training I like the french ring suit over the Belgium suit, but those are my opinions. Also look into the inner gear under the bite suit, Neoprine (wet suit material) can be your friend, under armour long sleeve stretch shirts, plus pants aid in the slipedge of the suit (slipedge helps prevent those nasty bruises). I prefer a warm weather under armour gear due to how hot it is in the suit, plus Under Armour helps keep most of the sweat from getting in your suit. It dosent take much to have a nasty smelling piece of equipment no matter how much Febreeze you use. I aslo use neoprine on my legs when using a comp-suit, I get this piece from the sporting goods store. I buy the thigh and calf pieces used for strained muscles. I also like slidding baseball shorts underneath, plus these hold your most important piece of under equipment your CUP (Red just think what you would have felt if those bites you received were to your crotch versus your bicep area). I have also seen people use soccer shin guards for the lower legs. Now for the last Cleats, I prefer Soccer Cleats those with a very short cleat. I like a short cleat because I dont want my foot to be stuck in the ground when im supposed to be twisting the catch (I like my knees in place). I have also used football cleats but have found that a soccer cleat is better made for a side to side motion plus a front to rear motion, I find the football cleat primarily made for the front motion, and the cleat itself is deficult to find in a short cleat, but I have used both. I do like the ankle support of the football cleat, so to anyone purchasing a soccer cleat, also purchase extra ankle support (you can find this with most soccer shin guards). I also recomend a bag for the suit, get a lage hocky bag they can fit the suit and they are half the price of buying one on line from a dog equipment business. Hang the suit up after each training session to allow it to air out. I have never washed a suit and I wouldn't recomend it I would beafraid of the wear to the fabric from washing and drying (the same goes with drycleaning). To clean the suit I recomend a warm rung wash cloth, and febreeze, dry the suit immediatly.
 
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